Dinos are ubiquitous compared to these... | FerrariChat

Dinos are ubiquitous compared to these...

Discussion in '206/246' started by jselevan, Feb 10, 2014.

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  1. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    #1 jselevan, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
    While not of Italian descent, these neighboring Latin-based gems are worth viewing and appreciating. Most reading this, I suppose, are not old enough to remember them in their glory days, but wow, what a collection of cars under one roof. The A210 won its class at LeMans (1972 I believe, but may well be mistaken).

    Go to Ultimate Car Page dot Com then /gallery/38151/Alpines.html

    Sorry for the cryptic URL, but I have been away too long. Are we not allowed to place URLs in a post?

    Enjoy.

    Jim S.
     
  2. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    #2 synchro, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017



    It looks like this one from Cars N Coffee!
    :)
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  3. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    #3 dinogts, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are some photos of a gaggle of spectacular Alpine Renaults from this years' Retromobile, forwarded to me by synchro. As the description from the Ultimate Car Page noted,

    "almost the entire competition history of Alpine was crammed into two small corrals. Brought by the son of company founder Jean Rédélé, Jean-Jacques and collector Hervé Charbonneaux, every iteration of the Alpine sports prototypes were on display from the original M63 through to the A441, which won the 1974 European Championship. For good measure they were also joined by an impressive line-up of production-based A110 rally cars and a Formula 3 car."

    Even better, they were all in pretty much my favorite colors for a Dino! You can guess that would be all shades of BLUE!!

    How come your Alpine Renault wasn't there, Jim?!?!
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  4. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Yes, indeed, it does look like the Cars and Coffee Alpine A110...I am a bit biased, as I am the owner.

    Jim S.
     
  5. antoninosavoca

    antoninosavoca Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2011
    283
    Montesilvano Italy
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    antonino savoca
    #5 antoninosavoca, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is my Alpine V 6 turbo Europa cup ,one of 69 buid for european europa cup championship.This car was property of Renault Italia,i buyed it in the year 1995 and made many races , slalom ,formula challenge , hill climb and tracks with food results,then i stopped to race with this car in 2002,driving this car is very pleasant and i like very much this car (my first race car)
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  6. antoninosavoca

    antoninosavoca Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2011
    283
    Montesilvano Italy
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    antonino savoca
    Sorry not food but good results!
     
  7. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Dec 30, 2006
    3,638
    France
    Can we see what's under the red cover please?
     
  8. antoninosavoca

    antoninosavoca Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2011
    283
    Montesilvano Italy
    Full Name:
    antonino savoca
    Abarth F. Lombardi Scorpione 1300 S.S. M.Y. 1969 i will post pictures soon .One picture of this car is in this book:" tutte le abarth" by elvio deganello giorgio nada editor and other fotos in " Auto Italia" car magazine June 2001 (tre fotos) pag. 63 and 64
    Ciao
    Antonino
     
  9. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 4, 2008
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    Rich
    I've always liked the Alpine. There is a Mexican version called the Dinalpin, I believe pretty much the same car?
     
  10. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    #10 dinogts, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
    Jim -

    The Alpines in fact do have a lot of Italy in their bloodlines. Throughout the history of Alpine, Giovanni Michelotti played an important role. He was working with Jean Rédélé (the founder of Alpine) starting in 1952 in designing cars that could take advantage of Renault's mass production. Michelotti was involved in the design of the A110's immediate predecessor, the A108, and the A110 incorporated much of Michelotti's work, especially in the front end. Michelotti had been trained by Giovanni Farina and worked with Allemano, and also prepared various design studies and prototype variants of the A110 for Alpine.

    In the past it has been hard to find quality hardback books printed in English about the Alpine Renault A110s, but finally in December 2013, Veloce Publishing issued a fascinating book, "ALPINE RENAULT - the fabulous berlinettes" by Roy Smith. The list price is £75.00 in the UK and $125 in the U.S. It is available in the U.S. for about $40 less on Amazon.

    The book is full of black and white and full color photos of Alpines in all of their glory on rallies and racetracks all over Europe and Africa, and elsewhere. It is not exactly parallel to the Dino Compendium, but it has a tremendous amount of information about the development of the Alpines, and multiple recollections from the drivers and co-drivers who raced and rallyed them. The driver lists are impressive, with all of the usual suspects driving and co-driving in rallies and races, and some surprises. Jean Todt, for example, was a co-pilot, did some driving, and also managed the Alpine Renault racing and rallying efforts, and wrote the forward to the book. Near the end of the book it has what is described as a "selected competition performance record up to 1979." That section runs to 24 pages and is single line spaced and densely packed. My impression is that if it had been "comprehensive" instead of "selective" that section might have been over 100 pages long. Very impressive.

    If you are interested in the A110, you must buy this book. Oh, and the photos are great!

    Another book that should also be of interest is available in paperback - Brooklands Books "Alpine Renault - Ultimate Portfolio 1958 - 1995" compiled by R M Clarke. This is a revised version - the first version was titled "Renault Alpine Gold Portfolio 1958-1994." The later edition benefits from suggestions from Tim Moores, of Club Alpine Renault (UK), the "go-to-guy" in the English speaking world on all things A110. It covers a wide range of Alpine Renault models, and has good introductory information for someone who doesn't want to spend as much on Roy Smith's excellent book. I recently found a copy on Amazon for $37.95.

    The A110 beat back hordes of Porsches, Lancias, Fiats, Ford Escorts, etc., in rallying from the late 1960s through to about 1974/75 when it was dethroned by the Lancia Stratos.

    Mark
     
  11. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Variants of the A108/A110 were licensed to be produced in Brazil (Willys-Overland Interlagos berlinette), Mexico (state-owned Diesel Nacional - "DINA" company - which made about 693, including berlinettes, GT4s, and A110 cabriolets), and Bulgaria (the "Bulgaralpine" - no one appears to know how many cars, if any, were produced - factory production photos appear to have been staged).

    In the market place the cars produced by these licensees are significantly less valued, although the Brazilian and the Mexican A108/A110s are very attractive cars in their own right, but some have criticized whether they stayed close enough to the originally intended design, construction, and mechanical specifications of Alpine.

    Finally, the best of the licensee produced cars are thought of to be those manufactured by FASA in Spain.
     
  12. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    #12 dinogts, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Pat Moss-Carlsson (Stirling Moss' sister), in an A110 (a 1600S, Chassis 17782) with her co-driver, Liz Crellin, January 21-28, 1972, Monte Carlo Rally (IRC International Rally), where she finished 10th Overall, 1st in Coupe des Dames.
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  13. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2009
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    Wow, thanks for the mention. I had no idea who she was. She must have rally been interesting to know. Definitely worth a google. Thanks
     
  14. Tim Moores

    Tim Moores Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    1
    Having seen the interest in the A110 I would like to offer a bit more information.

    However, firstly, Alpines are not Renaults.

    The correct marque designation as appears on their vehicle identification plaques is Alpine for the cars built before Renault took a controlling interest in late 1973 and Alpine Renault for the cars produced after that event.

    The early styling work on the cars was carried out by Chappe et Gessalin and at the end of 1955 Jean Rédélé asked both Chappe et Gessalin and Giovanni Michelotti to produce a styling exercise for an A106 Cabriolet. CG’s car was finished in mid-1956 but Jean Rédélé didn’t like it and preferred the car produced by Michelotti that was finished in December 1956 and arrived in Dieppe in January 1957. Whilst some of the design cues from that vehicle can be seen in the A108 and A110 both cars were styled in house by a team led by Roger Prieur, Jean Rédélé’s cousin. In the excellent biography “Jean Rédélé Monsieur Alpine” by Jean-Luc Fournier is a chapter about the start of the commercialisation of Alpine and on page 137 is a picture of the A108 clay model in development at the factory in Dieppe. The book includes much detail and also covers the somewhat stormy relationship between Alpine and Renault.

    There has been some discussion about numbers of A110 Berlinettes built and here, without technical details, is a list that gives a bit of information.

    A110 built by Société des Automobiles Alpine

    Numbers of early A110 produced
    It is not clear how many of each variant of the early A110 Berlinette were produced. Some sources show that 1,019 Berlinettes, both A108 and A110, were produced from 1961 to 1967 and that 171 A110 "70" were produced after 1967. Others give a breakdown of 214 "1100", 114 "100" and 242 "70", that is a total of 570 1108cc A110 Berlinettes. It is possible that in these latter sources the total given for the "1100" actually refers to the "80" and "85" since the "70", which was also called the "1100" and the "Standard", is separately identified.
    The 956cc "1000" from 1962 to 1965 (A110-950)
    1963 "A110-950" 956cc / 55hp / 565 kg / 170 kph / 16,650 FFr
    1963 "A110-950 Mignotet" 956cc/ 70hp / 540 kg / / 19,335 Ffr

    The 1108cc "80" and "85" from 1963 to 1966
    Most sources show that 214 "1100"s were produced during 1965 and 1966 and this probably covers both the "80" and the "85".
    1963 "80" 1108cc / 55hp / 565 kg / 170 kph / 16,650 FFr
    1965 "85" 1108cc/ 85hp / 610 kg / 180 kph / 19,780 FFr

    The 1108cc "1100", "Standard" and "70" from 1964 to 1969
    242 examples of this Berlinette were produced.
    1964 "1100" 1108cc / 66hp / 590 kg / 175 kph / 17,790 FFr
    1965 "1100 competition" 1108cc / 90hp / 590 kg / 196 kph / 25,140 FFr
    1966 "Standard" 1108cc / 66hp / 590 kg / 175 kph / 17,890 FFr
    1966 "Standard Hautes Performance" 1108cc / / 590 kg / 185 kph / 19,015 FFr
    1967 "70" 1108cc / 66hp / 590 kg / 175 kph / 17,890 FFr

    The 1108cc "100" from 1965 to 1967
    114 Berlinette "100"s were produced
    1965 "100" 1108cc / 95hp / 590 kg / 195 kph / 23,290 FFr
    1967 "100 GTH" 1149cc / 110hp / 590 kg / ?

    The "1300", "1300 SUPER" and "1300 S" from 1966 to 1971 (1300 VB)
    290 examples of this variant were produced
    1966 "1300" 1296cc / 115hp / 625 kg / 215 kph / 27,200 F
    1967 "1300 S" 1296cc / 120hp / 605 kg / 220 kph / 27,200 F
    1967 "1300 S Usine" 1296cc / / 605 kg / 230 kph / 34,348 F

    The "1300" and "1300 G" from 1967 to 1971 (1300 VA)
    547 1300 VA were produced.
    1967 "1300" 1255cc / 105hp / 625 kg / 215 kph / 23,950 F
    1970 "1300 G" 1255cc / 103hp / 625 kg / 215 kph / 26,600 F

    The "85" and "1300" from 1970 to 1976 (1300 VC)
    2,890 examples of this variant were produced
    1970 "85" 1289cc / 81hp / 700 kg / 180 kph / 21,600 FFr
    1971 "85" 1289cc / 81hp / 700 kg / 180 kph / 22,520 FFr
    1972 "85" 1289cc / 81hp / 700 kg / 180 kph / 25,400 FFr
    1973 "85" 1289cc / 81hp / 700 kg / 180 kph / 26,900 FFr
    1975 "1300" 1289cc / 81hp / 700 kg / 180 kph / 28,700 FFr
    1976 "1300" 1289cc / 81hp / 700 kg / 180 kph / 41,100 FFr

    The "1500" from 1967 to 1968 (1500)
    44 were produced of which 3 were supplied to the Gendarmerie Nationale.
    1967 "1500" 1470cc / 82hp / 700 kg / 185 kph / 20,690 F
    1968 "1500" 1470cc / 82hp / 700 kg / 185 kph / 20,690 F

    The "1600" from 1969 to 1970 (1600 VA)
    Certain Alpine source books show 202 examples of the "1600" being produced in 1968 and 1969 with a further 81 listed in 1973, but this is possibly the 1970 production incorrectly allocated.
    1969 "1600" 1565cc / 92hp / 730 kg / 195 kph / 25,600 F
    1970 "1600" 1565cc / 102hp / 730 kg / 195 kph / 26,700 F

    The 1565cc "1600 S" from 1969 to 1972 (1600 VB)
    It is thought that about 800 "1600 VB" were produced. Unfortunately factory records do not split the total production of the "1600 VB" and the next version of the "1600 S", the "1600 VC", which used a 1605cc engine.
    1970 "1600 S" 1565cc / 138hp / 650 kg / 215 kph / 30,840 FFr
    1970 "1600 S Gp IV" 1596cc / 172hp / 685 kg / 225 kph / 47,100 FFr
    1971 "1600 S" 1565cc / 138hp / 650 kg / 215 kph / 31,760 FFr
    1971 "1600 S Gp IV" 1596cc / 172hp / 685 kg / 225 kph / 47,100 FFr
    1972 "1600 S" 1565cc / 138hp / 650 kg / 215 kph / 35,400 FFr
    1972 "1600 S Gp IV" 1596cc / 172hp / 685 kg / 225 kph / 52,400 FFr

    The 1605cc "1600 S" from 1972 to 1974 (1600 VC)
    The total number of "1600 S" produced is generally reported as 1550 or 1660. However, it is not known how many were the "1600 VC" and how many were "1600 VB"; see previous section. However, it is probable that between 750 and 850 were the "1600 VC" variant.
    1973 "1600 S" 1605cc / 140hp / 710 kg / 210 kph / 37,900 F
    1973 "1800 Gp 4 Usine" 1798cc / 185hp / 710 to 750 kg / 252 kph / ? F

    The 1605cc "1600 SC" and "1600 SI" from 1974 to 1975 (1600 VD)
    The total number of 1600 VD produced is reported as from 481 to 588.
    1974 "1600 SC/1600 SI" 1605cc /140hp/145hp / 710 kg / 210 kph /38,600 F
    1975 "1600 SC / 1600 SI" 1605cc /140hp/145hp / 710 kg / 210 kph /40,100 F

    The 1647cc "1600 SX" from 1976 to 1977 (1600 VH)
    The 389 "1600 SX" brought the final total of A110 Berlinettes produced in France to 7176.
    1976 "1600 SX" 1647cc / 109hp / 750 kg / 195 kph / 49,900 F
    1977 "1600 SX" 1647cc / 109hp / 750 kg / 195 kph / 49,900 F


    Variants of the A110 were also produced outside France

    A110 Berlinettes produced in Bulgaria

    Licence building of 1108cc A110 Berlinettes began in January 1968 at the Bulgar-Renault Automobile Plant in Plovdiv under the name "BULGARALPINE" using components for 200 Berlinettes that had been sent from Dieppe. Production ceased in 1970 and it is thought that only some 60 cars were produced.

    A110 Berlinettes produced in Mexico

    Production of A110s under the name "DINALPIN" began in 1964. About 200 956cc cars were produced up to 1967 and a total of about 300 1108cc "1100"s and 1296cc “1300”s in the period from 1968 to 1972 when production of “1100”s ceased; the exact number of each is not known. A final series of around 35 1296cc cars was produced over approximately a twelve month period during 1973 and 1974

    A110 Berlinettes produced in Spain

    The most prolific source of Berlinettes outside France was Spain where 1108cc, 1289cc and 1397cc A110 Berlinettes were built under licence by FASA-Renault.
    The 1108cc "A110-1100" from 1967 to 1970
    528 A110-1100 Berlinettes were produced.
    1967 "A110-1100" 1108cc / 53hp / 695 kg / 166 kph / 185,000 ptas
    1968 "A110-1100" 1108cc / 58hp / 695 kg / 172 kph

    The 1289cc "A110-1300" from 1971 to 1976
    908 "A110-1300" Berlinettes were produced.
    1971 "A110-1300" 1289cc / 76hp / 695 kg / 171 kph / 198.000 ptas
    1972 "A110-1300" 1289cc / 80hp / 695 kg / 175 kph

    The 1397cc "1400" from 1977 to 1978
    130 "A110-1400" Berlinettes were produced between May 1977 and May 1978 and so a Spanish A110-1400 has the distinction of being the last example of the A110 Berlinette that was produced.
    1977 "A110-1400" 1397cc / 85hp / 710 kg / 184 kph / 476,000 ptas
     
  15. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Tim,

    Welcome to FerrarChat - it was wonderful to see your first post on FerrariChat in the 206/246 Dino Section!

    For those FCHATTERS who don't know this, Tim Moores lives in England and is one of the foremost experts, if not THE foremost expert, on Alpines. One of his great cars is featured on the back cover of Roy Smith's new book, "ALPINE RENAULT - the fabulous berlinettes."

    And, "our own" Tom Shaughnessy is a big fan of Mr. Moores, for good reason!!

    Mark N.
     
  16. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Tim,
    Sorry for being a bit late to the thread. Great post summarizing the history of the Alpine. I purchased mine from a gentleman north of Manchester in 2002. I may have run into you at the NEC that year as I happen to be there fetching my car during the week of the NEC, and there were a few (beautiful) Alpines on display.

    Jim S.
     

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