1973 Dino GTS Bonham's Goodwood Sold: $446K

Just goes to show you how useless a Ferrari Classiche certificate is

 

I disagree and suspect it makes a car more salable.

 

I agree with both of you.

It is useless, but it can also make a car more saleable...

 

Tony,

Very harsh and, imho, wrong. Well, certainly wrong if you're referring to the Classiche process carried out in the UK by Tony Willis.

I have no doubt that when you come to sell your car, you'll give Tony W a call. Or perhaps don't bother and just sell it for 10/15% less...

I'm sure your immaculate C&F GT would pass with flying colours (just as my 206 did earlier this month).

Best wishes,

Yet another Tony

 

Does F.C. expect 100% originalty? If so,..........

Regards, Alberto

 

I suppose any piece of documentation available to a buyer aids a sale. Take a surveyors report on a property. However they are one person's opinion only. The Goodwood car was pretty ordinary in most eyes. I am not sure how the classiche docs are controled by Luca DeM's business,but if it is a franchise arrangement throughuot the world,then they should follow strict guidelines,which does seem to be the case right now

 

I don't know what process is involved in the FC certification or indeed how long it is valid for, it can only be a snap shot of the car on the day, but the reason for my remark is that people see this certificate and have high expectations of the car and believe it to be 100%perfect even years later when in fact in MAY not be.

Its the perception that with this certificate "everything is perfect" that concerns me. This car is clearly deficient in some areas.

I like to think my car is immaculate but know where near perfect in comparison to other vehicles I have seen, as for being devalued, that could be debated! Your 206 would sell anytime of the day regardless of a piece of paper.

 

So Tony, why is it that certain auction houses are not keen to accept Ferraris that do not have Classiche? I think that it is a big money spinner, but would personally rather purchase a car with Classiche than a car without. I do know that when I stupidly sold my Daytona a few years ago the Classiche certification is was did the deal.

I am in the process of having my 246 GTS done.

 

Best ask them Anthony, I doubt they would refuse to sell a car if the commission was right!

I am more interested in why would you only buy a car with a FC certificate. Just asking!!

 

Tony, I did not say that I would only buy a car with FC. I said I would prefer to buy a car with FC. The reason is that at some point the factory has given their approval that the car in question is original to the factory build sheets. Surely this has to have some value? Say for example, there are two identical cars for sale, but one has FC. Which one will sell first?

 

Classiche only certified the matching numbers as far as I can tell.

Car painted in a non-original color and only the place of delivery and the last two years of its history are known. Over 300k euro! We're still not in bubble territory?

 

There has been debate on the merits of Classiche before.

IMHO the biggest failure with Classiche on certain models like the 246 is that the factory stopped supporting these cars with parts long, long ago. They are laying themselves wide open to raised eyebrows on the question of authenticity due to this and it therefore raises a genuine question about the value in the certification process. Specialists like Superformance have played a much bigger role than the factory has for many years in terms of keeping these cars on the road.

Porsche are doing a much better job with their factory restoration programme as they are continually adding new parts to their historic inventory. With each new restoration project they take on they come up against the same problems owners have for years when they discover items required that are no longer available. They then commission new parts from their supplier base which are then made available to order through their entire dealer network. There is a cost to doing this which Porsche consider worthwhile but Ferrari evidently do not which is a pity.

I know Tony Willis is trying to improve things as much as he is able to and he welcomes the fact that enthusiastic owners are taking it upon themselves to have various items reproduced to a high standard.

It is unarguably a money spinner for the factory and doubtless adds value to novice buyers not familiar with the world of Ferraris hence why auction houses may want it to absolve themselves of responsibility for a car's condition. After all what better get out jail card is there than one that says "Officially Authenticated by Ferrari"

There is certainly far greater knowledge on this forum when it comes to correct original parts and finishes for the Dino models and the Bonhams car proves the point that originality does not feature highly in the Classiche process when there are so many incorrect basic detail issues on the car. That is where the divergence of opinion on the value of the process occurs which frankly is not surprising. If that certificate is being issued to add value it should surely be a guarantee that the car is as correct as possible in every detail.

 

From my perspective Anthony, I would buy the one that was the most accurate, desirable and well maintained. I would want to see the car in its surroundings and meet the owner, but that's me.

I certainly wouldn't rely on a certificate and moreover I wouldn't pay more because of it. How can anyone say with 100% authority that the car being inspected 40+years after manufacture is correct to factory build sheets, sorry I don't see it no matter how good they are.

IMO a certificate is only a snap shot of the inspection at that moment in time, i.e. MOT certificate, electrical test certificate, gas test certificate etc etc. Accurate at the time but that's it, anything can change afterwards. Sorry but that's my view and I certainly do not denounce anybody who feels they need a FC certificate.

Good or bad....I don't know perhaps we put to much reliance on a piece of paper.

Best Regards and no offence to anyone intended

Tony