Missing compression | FerrariChat

Missing compression

Discussion in '206/246' started by pshoejberg, Aug 16, 2016.

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  1. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Peter H
    Dino owners and engine experts I have a problem. Just tested my new build engine with a compression tester and I have +-150 psi on #1 to 5 (Cold engine, lubed with slight amount of petrol/engine oil mix). Initially I had 30 psi on #6, but this figure has slowly increase to 70 psi after a few more attempts to re-measure. The engine has never been fired up after overhaul and the engine has been standing untouched for more than 2 years after the overhaul. I can feel air coming out of the carburetor and vacuum on the exhaust side when spinning the engine, i.e. I suspect the valves must be leaking for some reason. The overhaul included a complete head job and the valves was leak tested prior installation of the piston head. What is happening here? Are the valves hanging (Unlikely that both valves are hanging?), have a swabbed the camshafts or completely missed the camshaft setting? In addition, why is the compression slowly increasing? I have turned the engine numinous times during head installation and camshaft setting and have had no indications of any drag indicating bend valves. The engine is in the car so this is a pain. All theories and input are more than welcome.

    Best regards

    Peter
     
  2. yakxx21

    yakxx21 Karting

    Jun 29, 2013
    230
    After I did my engine I had a problem with the shims because one or two were really on the thin side but still ok (Just) ,,..I put this down to the head guys and seat inserts .....anyway when I got to the compression test I had five of them about 135 -145 and one of them at only 100 at best...engine in car and a pain to remove the heads or engine again....
    I ran the engine and over a few runs of the car ( which seems to run great.purrs like a cat at ticker and no back firing on the runover (After fitting bigger Jets in the carb ) .....I rechecked my compression and all six pots were at 135 + I thought this was a bit low but as she runs like a dream.....Im leaving as is...
    Just my experience....you have listed all the possibilities as far as I can think but I hope the experts will help you more ...
     
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Put some WD40 down the plug holes in case the rings have stuck, turn the engine a little and leave for a day. Check the valve clearence and put wd 40 on the follower, see if the valves are free when piston is away from tdc. Push the valves down and check you get the same clearence each time it closes.
     
  4. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Thanks for the input gents. I have tried to soak with oil/petrol over night with no improvement. I think next step will be removal of the cam covers to inspect what's going on and check the timing marks. I considered to run the engine as is to give it some heat and vibrations, but I do not dare...

    Regards Peter.
     
  5. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Stick with wd 40 as oil is too thick
     
  6. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
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    Rob C.
    Peter if you assembled the engine I would have little doubt that something is assembled incorrectly. Of course errors can happen to anyone but I would look for something 'stuck' before doing too much disassembly. In your shoes I would do a leak down test first to identify whether the leak is coming from the bottom end or from the heads. On the Dino removing the carburetors with the manifold is really easy so I would take them off before getting into cam cover removal. This will allow you to have a good listen and look to at least the intake valves to identify if one is leaking. Assuming the leak is coming from the heads I would then pull the cam covers and double check the entire valve train and timing.

    My guess is that you have a slightly sticking ring. The problem is that you cannot be sure of where in the bore it is sticking so WD40 may do the trick but then again if the stick is near the top the WD40 may just pool at the bottom of the cylinder and do nothing. What I do find encouraging is that the compression increased dramatically with some turning.

    After all these checks in your shoes I would crank the engine with the coil disconnected to confirm it makes oil pressure and then re-connect the coil and start the engine for 30 seconds - 1 minute and then re-check the compression. My theory is that with all of the initial checks done if nothing is found then you really do need to remove the engine to find your problem. At this stage I cannot see the harm in running an engine that makes oil pressure down on compression for 1 minute. You may get lucky and find that it is a sticking ring after all and it will work itself free with a little heat and vibration.
     
  7. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    #7 pshoejberg, Aug 17, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    I followed your advice and poured in a few ml of WD40...now reaching 110 psi in compression so something is moving and sealing up. Also went through all my notes from setting the cam timing and cannot find anything suspicious. Based on that I have decided not to tear anything apart for now. I am away from the work shop for 3 to 4 weeks and when I return I think it is time for firing up the engine and see how it runs.

    Rob, I did not see your input before I wrote the above observations, but I believe you nailed it spot on. I have already checked that oil is circulating, so I guees next step is engine start.

    Thanks

    Peter
     
  8. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Rob C.
    With this new development I would comfortably fire the engine up without even taking off the cam covers or carbs. Just confirm oil pressure, re-connect the coil and make some Italian noise.
     
  9. dino clay

    dino clay Karting

    Oct 31, 2007
    185
    san mateo, cal
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    clay cavanaugh
    Perfectly normal, your rings have not seated. You have to fire up the engine, put some time on it and then recheck the compression after cool down.
    clay
     
  10. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Alberto
    +1

    Also known as 'breaking in' your engine....

    Regards, Alberto
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    Isle of man- uk
    Dont worry about sticking a good squirt of WD40 down the ppug hole as it will only run into the sump, you can change that.
    If you wind the engine around until you have the piston at the top you should be able to bet the wd40 all arond the piston circumference and onto the full ring surface, do with each unit. Use the little plastic tube.. To free it up give it a good blast so you know its in there.
     
  12. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    #12 pshoejberg, Sep 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I just arrived back from a long business trip and could hardly wait to fire up the engine to see if this could bring back the last missing compression on cylinder 6. First had to assemble the last bit of the cooling system and then filled up with cooling fluid and 3 gallon of fuel. Checked for leaks - No leaks and no oil leaks either!. Disconnected the ignition and ran the fuel pumps until all carburetors were filled. Turned over the engine a couple of times to lubricate everything and then reinstated the ignition. Turned the key and the engine started at first turn and ran nicely in idle. Ran it for 2 x 2 minutes and rechecked the compression....140 psi! Great, the issue is sorted and that made my day big time. Thanks to everybody for all for the good advice. I was very close to starting dismantling the engine again, so I have potentially saved a lot of hassle.


    Regards

    Peter
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