PCV valve details | FerrariChat

PCV valve details

Discussion in '206/246' started by mar3kl, May 16, 2017.

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  1. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
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    Mark
    My euro GTS is missing its PCV valve disc. The usual suspects don't sell them, so I'm thinking about fabricating one. I've looked at some old threads and it seems it's phenolic, 1mm in thickness. Does anyone know the diameter? I can guess from the diameter of the outlet tube that the disc sits on, but it would be good to know exactly. Some posts also mention a small hole in the disc - any idea how large? I'm surprised there's any sort of hole at all, since I'd think that would cause an air leak into the two small calibrated tubes in the valve body, and thence to the inlet manifold where it could lean out the fuel mixture.

    If anyone has exact dimensions and a photograph they could post, I'd appreciate it.
     
  2. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Mark,
    I went through this and ended up using a nylon washer, seems fine.
    I can send dinensions but I don't think the hole size is critical.
     
  3. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
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    I'm trying and failing to understand the physics of this valve disc. If the disc has no hole, its behavior makes sense to me: at speed, a combination of air box vacuum from above and crankcase pressure from below lifts the disc off the valve body so the blow-by can be drawn into the carbs and combusted. If you're at idle, then air box vacuum is low, crankcase pressure is low, and the vacuum from the calibrated tubes sucking air into the manifold from below pulls the disc down onto the valve body, closing it so no gases escape. But if there's a hole in the valve, then air will always get drawn into those calibrated tubes and into the intake manifold, bypassing the carbs and leaning out your fuel mixture. At speed it's probably not enough to make a difference, but I'd think it would affect your idle speed. A hole in the middle seems to negate the entire point of the disc. Doesn't make sense to me - can someone explain?
     
  4. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    That's my understanding too, the manual says

    "A small hole in the pressure limiting valve prevents the depression (low pressure) in the crankcase from becoming too great should the engine be running at low speeds for a long time." ?

    I disconnected the vacuum tubes many years ago, as you rightly say, it messes up the idle running.
     
  5. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    I was re-balancing the webers on my car with a synchrometer and for fun I measured the effect of the two tubes/hoses into cylinders 4 & 6 intake manifold.
    The difference between plugged and unplugged is 0.1-0.2 on the synchrometer scale out of an airflow total of 3.3 at idle.
    It's a very small "leak" but noticable and was easily tuned out with the air correction screws.
     
  6. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    That's interesting, when I pulled off the plugged tubes the idle was terrible and hard to tickover.

    Have you left them disconnected and open to atmosphere all the time?, my guess is at a minimum you will have problems when you drive the car as it will lean out those cylinders!

    Tony
     
  7. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
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    I've fabricated a valve disc out of phenolic sheet - 17mm diameter, 1mm thick, with a 5mm hole as a best guess. I've also hooked up cavis hose to the calibrated manifold vacuum ports, so everything's set up the way it should be. The idle's gone up a little - maybe a couple of hundred RPM - although after maybe 15 seconds or so it settles back down. It also seems to have a bit less unburnt HC smell at idle, although that might be wishful thinking. No drivability change at all. I'm really curious to know what that disc behavior is supposed to be, i.e. when is it flat on the valve body because of lack of positive pressure from the crankcase combined with vacuum from the manifold ports. And at what RPM the manifold vacuum is exceeded by the crankcase pressure, lifting the disc. If anyone knows, speak up!
     
  8. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    I made my disc out of aluminum.
     
  9. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    The point at which the disc lifts into the cage will depend on how much ring blow by there is, so engine condition, is it run in etc.

    I think there are 3 things this this does based on the discussion;
    Idle - high vacuum, low crankcase gas volume/ pressure so the HC are sucked in to the manifold, disc closed As Tony pointed out in the manual, the hole is an air bleed to prevent high crankcase vacuum.
    Running - little or no vacuum but high volume crankcase gas so HC pushed into the airbox, disc lifts.
    Backfire - disc stops flame from igniting crankcase

    The hole in the disc should probably be a similar area to the two holes in the intake or maybe a little smaller, ~3mm ?
    I suspect the only issue with a larger hole is it won't arrest a backfire.
     
  10. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    #10 dgt, Jun 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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