The future for petrol powered classic cars

But France does not want to clear the country of petrol and diesel cars by 2040!
The Minister of Ecolgy has announced that in 2040, no new car with an Internal Combustion Engine should be SOLD in France. Those with ICE that would be already on the roads are not concerned. At least for the time being. That said, the writting is probably not far from being already on the wall for diesel-powered cars...

For the time being, petrol engine powered cars are safe, even if some cities (including Paris) have already adopted legislation that ban the older of these from circulation every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, THursday and Friday between 8:00 and 20:00; in Paris, cars built/registered before 1997 are concerned by the ban.

Rgds

 

My personal view and hope is that electric will be seen as the con that it is, in the same way as diesel has for cars. Don't forget the harmful effects of diesel has been know about for some considerable years; successive governments have just been concentrating on CO2, which diesels has been better at then petrol hence the push for diesel.

I think once some electric cars go through their lifecycle and the stockpile of old batteries and cost of their replacement, both financially and environmentally is realised the wind will change. (Teasing the Tesla sales man the other day and he refused to tell me the replacement cost for the batteries! Says it all in my book.)

Volvo have said their line up will be either electric or hybrid, so they will still have petrol and or diesel engines in their cars and hence the continued development of combustion engines.

There is no doubt we need to be cleaner, and cities in particular. This will drive developments in technology and differing technologies than we have now in our cars. But it will be years, even generations before we see the complete demise of the internal combustion engine. Why else would all the oil companies be investing the sums they are into oil?

So until that day comes, I will continue to enjoy my F car and burn fossil fuels!!! (As to bans in cities; I don't care as I hate them and only go to them for work!)

 

It's already the case here, admittedly with a minority of folks if your car is a vintage car. As for the 206/246, I don't think there is any risk: the car is so pretty that she - and her driver - will never be frowned upon.
But should you happen to be seen driving a brand new sports car, that may not be to everyone's taste.
It's about the same for the old, genuine, original FIAT 500 (or the original "Mini") those cars are just terrible in terms of emissions, but so cute that no-one cares. Same for the old Vespas: terrible for emissions, but almost everybody loves them, so no-one pays attention. Like any other topics, this is all relative.

Rgds

 

In France, the new Minister of Ecology, like the other before him, don't want petrol powered cars but don't care about hundreds of thousands of full loaded heavy trucks on our roads, many with made in China stuff in the trailer. They don't like the nuclear industry, but what is an electric powered car ? And where do the nuclear waste go ? They simply move a problem from a point A to a point B. On the other side, like you and me, they enjoy rides in cars, helicopters and planes. So, maybe in 20 years, we'll all ride on a bicycle to go to work, but there will be always enough petrol to fil up the tanks of our old cars.

 

We can always go back to horses. Not only are horses enjoyable and relaxing to ride, but they also produce manure for organic farmers. Shoveling manure is also good exercise.

Seriously, one of my friends has a Tesla. It is great for driving around town. It is not convenient for a long trip. He will be coming to visit me at the ranch in Nevada later this month, but he has to make two stops to recharge to get here. Then when he arrives, he has to plug into my 220 outlet to recharge again. Also, he has to plot a zig-zag course to the charging stations. It will take him twice as long and a greater distance to get here. An electric car? No thanks.

 

Volvo's announcement is throughly misunderstood. They said they will not make any more gas only propulsion vehicles. They will still make petrol powered vehicles, in the form of hybrid. And they leave the door open for electric only as well. This is likely the near future (next 10 years) for most vehicles. All Volvo did was tell you the sky is blue. But they did it in a clever way that makes them seem like some kind of leader. Good for them.

There will still be petrol available.

As to the other governments time frames- this is a tried and true trick of governments all over the world- put forth a goal that is many years in the future- and if you can't make it work then you adjust it. So 2040 or 2030 are too far away- lets wait for 2028 and see where things are. I suspect an outright ban will be too tricky.

But yes, we are trending to a large scale reduction of internal combustion powered vehicles. When you think about it from an efficiency stand point- its probably a good thing since IC engines are something like 30% efficient- the other 70% of the energy being turned into heat and not used for propulsion. But petrol has one of the highest energy density per unit of fluid. On the other side, I think batteries are roughly the other way around- the electric motor is like 90% efficient but the batteries of today are more like 30% efficient. Battery tech will get better. I don't think we will make ICE much better.

I don't really care if my daily is electric, but if we lose the wonderful sounds and sensations of our Ferraris, I will cry. Of course, we would have our classic Ferraris still....

In short - the sky isn't falling. As car enthusiasts we might have to make some adjustments but I don't think our hobby will die off quite so dramatically. Just my own humble opinion.

 

My response is somewhat off-topic, but I will get to the point. I hate smoking and tobacco smoke. Besides my cars and motorcycles, I collect art. I have spent countless thousands of dollars cleaning tobacco smoke from paintings that I have acquired. Nobody smokes in my house. If anyone doesn't like that, they better not step foot on my property.

Besides my cars, motorcycles, and art, I collect firearms or what some people call "instruments of murder". Almost all of my relatives have disowned me because of my collection of firearms. I don't care. Now the point is this; if anyone wants to consider me to be a pariah or tries to bully me because of my interests, I simply tell them to have deeply personal relationship with themselves.

 

If you look at the far future gasoline will be outlawed as a carcinogen. Then you will be able to get it by permit only.

This is someone's future.

 

When I was working at a technology assessment lab at a certain university about 30 years ago, I came across a U.S. Senate Hearing report about problems trying to manage technology assessment. One of the papers submitted was fascinating. According to the paper, in the late 1890s and early 1900s, New York City's Bowery and nearby areas had (IIRC) well over 10,000 (maybe it was 100,000!!) or more draft horses. Their excrement/urine in some parts of the city's "streets" was over 6 feet deep, making passage virtually impossible, and there were terrible problems with flies and odors. Articles routinely appeared in newspapers of the time crying out for relief.

Now imagine someone shows up with a gasoline powered truck or automobile that didn't crap and urinate all day long whether it was working or not (OK, maybe it smoked a little, or a lot, when running), and it did not need to be fed when it rested in a stable, it didn't require a stable that needed to be cleaned out every day with stable wastes removed, and its feed didn't need to be protected from rats and mice.

So, imagine you were New York's technocrat back then and you were told you had to make a choice.

I'm betting you'd have chosen gasoline powered cars and trucks. (Yes, I know that there were problems with gasoline supplies at the time, and that there were electric cars back then - but they had the same sort of problems that electric vehicles have to this day).

 

Your country has always be much more open minded towards cars than France (for instance). Many strange types of vehicles, or very low-production examples, are allowed in the UK and on your roads, whereas here, outside cars produced in large series, it is really extremly difficult to road-register "something out the mainstream". You have to ask the department of road-registration for a special autorisation for the inspection of the car, which they might grant or not, and then they are free to accept the car...or not ("Réception à titre isolé"). Transformations on engines are forbidden by the insurance companies (this is why we do not have a hot-rod culture in France, and why we do not modify cars, etc...)

Rgds

 

I just got back from a business trip to Michelin in South Carolina. Gas was $1.89 a gallon!! I didn't see one Tesla for three days. Even in California where we're taxed for everything it's as low as $2.79 in my area.

Freeman

 

$1.89 for one US gallon would equate to about $0.5067 a litre, if the US gallon is still 3.73 litre. So, that would be something like € 0.46 per litre, which is three times less than what it is here...

Rgds

 

I even saw $1.79 in a few places!!

 

…heavenly, even if the fuel just isn't the biggest issue to ran a Ferrari probably…

 

Bottled water is more expensive.

 

Do people not understand how electricity is produced and who owns the power plants? I'm sure every is high-fiving with every eclectic car sold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Battery powered cars are a stepping stone. And Musk put all his eggs in the outdated Li-on battery for the benefit of economy of scale. However... his partner in battery production has even gone on record and stated that Li-on batteries will NEVER be able to meet Musks goals. The new glass batteries or graphine batteries will have to come out... and musk didn't invest in that technology...

Also, Teslas represent I believe less than .5% POINT FIVE... less than ONE PERCENT of car production... yet have a valuation of almost equal to Ford. The chickens will come home to roost... and if the model 3 doesn't go perfectly... Im not sure he is big enough to bail out... and you can bet this admin isn't going to help

 

How true! When I lived in the DC area a few years ago, I would always get a chuckle out of the protestors who would come to town and ride the subway to their assembly site and remark about the "clean, non-polluting electric subway." They had no clue that some power plant in West Virginia was burning coal and spewing thick black smoke to make their ride possible.

 

Starbucks coffee cost about $24.00 per gallon.

 

It depends from country to country. In France, it's almost completly nuclear (79%), due to the plan launched in 1974 for the country to get more independant in energy procurement. That doesn't mean nuclear doesn't have its problems, of course.

The U.K decided yesterday to implement the exact same measures as France:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/britain-to-ban-sale-of-all-diesel-and-petrol-cars-and-vans-from-2040

Rgds

 

Back to Chris' original question, yes undoubtably and it's already happening.

The actual problem with air pollution isn't the classic car community but we'll be collateral damage in the wider campaign because we are an easy target and represent the past.

 

Based on a recent trip to Asheville, and occasional trips up I-95, I would guess the crappy road conditions on the interstates may be due to low gasoline-taxes. The indirect costs of cheap gas are poorly-maintained roads.