f40 differences | FerrariChat

f40 differences

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ross, Nov 9, 2007.

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  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    are there any differences between f40's over their production time? i am aware of the really early ones having the perspex sliding side windows, and the different usa model, but were their other improvements over the production run?
     
  2. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade ross,

    Whilst some would dispute this, but it is my belief that the F-40 was continually evolving and that the later cars were the best versions of all. My car is a 1992 and of course one of the last and best. Perhaps others with earlier versions will have other opinions.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  3. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    Respectfully ... disagree. :)
     
  4. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
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    Dear Comrade Tipo815,

    Not a 1992 then!

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  5. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
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    Graham,
    With all due respect its easy to say that - but the question asked was are there any differences and if so what are they. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but if you cannot back it up with a single fact beyond your "belief" then its pretty worthless in the context of this thread
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Excellent question indeed, because as we have learned there are many differences.

    F40 production is divided into 2 distinct series:

    - The USA F40, 211 built.
    - The European (rest-of-the-world) F40, about 1100 built.

    The USA F40s were the same but for a few small detail differences applied to the 1991 and 1992 cars.

    The European F40s were more of an evolutionary car with distinct changes as production went along. You are right, the early cars (first 50) had the plexiglass sliding windows and were without catalytic converters, then cats were added, adjustable suspension, changes in the shape and positining of the heat shields in the engine bay, reinforced rear chassis cross units etc etc. I assume your interest is confined to the European cars, and I personally find it fascinating to note all the small changes that were made as production went along.

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  7. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

    Feb 13, 2004
    8,046
    SFL
    Do a search, I started a thread on this about two months ago.

    As for the plexi windows. They were on the first 50 or so, and some later ones as well. Plus many added them to their cars....

    Look for the thread, it was full of info!
     
  8. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
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    FWIW, F40's were a work in progress throughout their construction time period from 1987 to 1992.
    The F40 was the car that pioneered the use of Kevlar and Carbon fiber in Ferrari road cars and also had a significant number of points on the car where CF met metal and the factory had to figure out how to join them. Graham is right (god forgive me for that blasphemy!) in saying that the later cars were better. They are better in that the factory got better at building them. The joins are better and cleaner. The materials used to cover the seats improved. The construction of the cars themselves and the fit and finish continually improved. A 92 is better than a 90 and 91, Euro or US version. That is simply a fact. I have owned two 92 US version cars (still have one) and have literally inspected dozens in the purchase process. I would not buy anything but a 92 because of the quality concerns that I developed in looking at the earlier cars.
     
  9. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
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    Nick.
    one has to wonder if your assertation of the superiority of the '92 version is because you own and indeed are trying to sell one.

    now yes im sure they did get better at building the cars after a while, BUT they started making them in 1987 so im fairly sure that its likely they had it pretty well sussed long before '92.
    As for the '92's being the best well im pretty sure ive read on here that the later cars (circa 92 odd) werent built by craftsmen but rather by school leavers drafted into the factory to help keep up with demand
     
  10. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade Chaos,

    I endeavoured to respond to the enquirer as best that I was able but I have never purported to be an expert - merely only ever an aficianado stating an opinion. However, 410SA has stated his views within Post Number 8 and he has further expounded that he has owned a number of F-40's. Furthermore, Joe Sackey has clearly stated his opinions within Post Number Six. Both of these gentlemen have owned numerous Ferrari's and have a brobdingnagian degree of experience and in my opinion they should be perceived as experts. I can only express that from my own experiences over many years long standing with small volume specialist manufacturers of motor cars, that their products are invariably and perhaps inevitably within a state of perpetual evolvement and Ferrari is no different. And more particularly is this the case with regard to the F-40. Indeed, 410SA has presented the case in a frightfully eloquent fashion.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  11. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
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    Nick.
    i didnt notice Joe espousing Alex's theory that the '92 is better built etc, in fact he simply confirmed that there are a number of small but interesting changes between the years
     
  12. RTB

    RTB Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2006
    1,071
    UK
    www.qv500.com has useful information about all such matters.
     
  13. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
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    Dear Comrade RTB,

    Very interesting information indeed and thank you very much for troubling to post it.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  14. TexasMike

    TexasMike F1 World Champ

    Feb 17, 2005
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    +1

    I like the first sentence they use to describe the F40. :) "If reputations determined values then the Ferrari F40 would be among the worlds most expensive motorcars."
     
  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    In the USA at least, here is how the "differences" discussion goes:

    1990 owners will tell you their model year is best.
    1991 owners will tell you their model year is best.
    1992 owners will tell you their model year is best.

    What does that tell you?

    However, if you ask most USA F40 owners to compile a list of the actual differences between the cars including the differences between the USA cars and the European cars, they can barely tell you what they are. But when it comes to tellling you that their model year is the best, they become world-renowned experts!!

    There really is no "best" in model years. They are just some "differences". Im known for having a 1990, but just so you dont think Im biased, there is also a 1992 tucked away somewhere.

    In fact, the bottom line is that there is a wide variation in quality of construction from one car to another even within the same model year! Anyone who makes a living sorting out the good, the bad and the ugly amongst these cars can quickly advise you of same. Thats why some cars came from the factory with "bullet-proof" engines and others with the very next assembly number had to have an engine replacement.

    Im not advocating one over another but it is true that Ferrari SpA used polytechnic school graduates on the assemby line towards the end of production circa 1992.

    Hope my comments are useful.

    Joe
    www.joesckey.com
     
  16. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
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  17. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
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  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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  19. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

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    You guys can natter on all you want. What counts is actually stepping up and buying. I have no reason to doubt anyone else's experience, but in my very subjective personal experience and opinion, I wouldn't buy any model year F40 except a 1992. And I did. Twice. In my personal universe that is all that matters.
     
  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    My point all along...

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  21. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

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    Nick.
    whats "stepping up and buying" got to do with it ?
    you dont have to be rich or elitist to know what your talking about - sure it "can" help but isnt the key to it all.
    Marcel Massini doesnt own every model of Ferrari there is, but he is acknowledged as one of the worlds greatest experts on them.

    good to hear

    isnt this doubting other ppls experiences ? :rolleyes:


    meanwhile back in the real world another member on here has just confirmed his 3rd F40 (not to mention brokering a fair few more) and im sure he isnt the only one either.


    one other thought.
    if we accept that the cars may have gotten better as more were built then surely you would reach a plateau long before '92
    im happy to accept that maybe an '89 might be a little better put together than an '87 - but after a few years of building the same cars just how much more could a factory worker learn about putting them together ? eg would a '92 be any better put together than a '90 bearing in mind that by '90 they had 3 yrs odd of experience already
     
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Chaos,

    As I already pointed out, true to form, a 1992 owner is saying 1992 cars are best (albeit in his "personal universe"). This tells you everything about this debate you wish to know...

    BTW your thoughts as above are spot on.

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  23. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    In my opinion ... cleanliness, originality, history, maintenance, etc. ... are all significantly more important than the particular year of the car.

    That being said I can understand the logic behind ever improving build quality with each successive year so from that perspective it may be possible that later cars were better built. A counterpoint to that would be that the F40 was in production for a number of years prior to coming to the U.S. so one could surmise that any manufacturing hurdles would have long since been addressed and rectified.

    In the end ... Joe is probably correct in that human nature will dictate that we will all argue in favor of our particular model year cars. Therefore ... not to contradict Joe's assessment ... 1990 F40s are by far the best year cars! :D
     
  24. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

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    QUOTES from CHAOS]
    "whats "stepping up and buying" got to do with it ?
    you dont have to be rich or elitist to know what your talking about - sure it "can" help but isnt the key to it all.
    Marcel Massini doesnt own every model of Ferrari there is, but he is acknowledged as one of the worlds greatest experts on them."

    One day, if you ever “step up and buy” an F40 it will matter. Right now you are irrelevant in this discussion, I know Marcel Massini (via correspondence on the forum of course), and you are no Marcel Massini (with apologies to Senator Lloyd Bentsen for paraphrasing his original remark)





    "isnt this doubting other ppls experiences ? :rolleyes:"

    Are you smoking crack? It's my very personal subjective view. It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else




    "meanwhile back in the real world another member on here has just confirmed his 3rd F40 (not to mention brokering a fair few more) and im sure he isnt the only one either."
    Good for him!. I'm certain he has his own very personal, subjective criteria for choosing the cars he does


    "one other thought.
    if we accept that the cars may have gotten better as more were built then surely you would reach a plateau long before '92
    im happy to accept that maybe an '89 might be a little better put together than an '87 - but after a few years of building the same cars just how much more could a factory worker learn about putting them together ? eg would a '92 be any better put together than a '90 bearing in mind that by '90 they had 3 yrs odd of experience already"

    On this particular point, my personal experience in researching and inspecting literally 20 F40's of various model years led me, very clearly, to determine that among the cars I checked out, the 92's were always the better cars in fit and finish and overall drivability. That is a fact.

    I don't particularly care for your circular logic and on this particular subject I will not converse with you anymore. If you choose to respond for any reason, please be aware it will not elicit any more comment from me. I believe my point of view is crystal clear and it will not alter no matter what asinine rejoinders you care to craft.
     
  25. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Feb 21, 2001
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    Does the market value the model years differently?
     

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