Go Back   FerrariChat.com > Model Specific Discussions > 288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari

Reply
 
Share/Bookmark LinkBack Thread Tools
  #4701  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:59 AM
Formula Junior
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Zealand
Full Name: Simon
Posts: 499
High Res
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #4702  
Old 01-26-2013, 03:00 AM
Olympus's Avatar
Karting
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In the driver's seat
Full Name: John
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOL-FAN View Post
Your thoughts on the matter are very much in line with mine however, I keep hearing that it will have a 1.4MMUSD base.
I've heard that figure as well. It appears that seven figures in Euros are a big hurdle to break at the moment globally; a friend in Maranello also told me that Tata's reasoning behind the cancellation of the CX75 was very well noted by the bean counters there.

One comment on the Macca vs Ferrari thing. I personally prefer Ferrari, warts 'n all, to the black-and-white, ultra efficient image of McLaren. I can very easily see why possibly Ferrari is looking again at some F70 details; these two cars are benchmarking a sector again and, always imo, the set up at McLaren may help more compared to heritage-driven Maranello.

Porsche is imo part of a Group that acts according to a defined balance within. For me, this will always detract in spirit, regardless of how unquestionably capable their cars are.
Reply With Quote
  #4703  
Old 01-26-2013, 03:11 AM
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lucca
Full Name: Alberto
Posts: 356
Have you any info about F150 rims?
Reply With Quote
  #4704  
Old 01-26-2013, 06:18 AM
F1 Veteran
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Denmark
Full Name: B. Frandsen
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloton25 View Post
Yes - McLaren decided to withhold specs of P1 that were due to be released in Paris once it became clear that the new Ferrari supercar was delayed and was due to be a no-show. Why show their full hand and give Ferrari a list of all the benchmarks the car they were still developing needs to exceed? Where is the logic in that?

Another fun fact - the "concept" McLaren showed in Paris is actually a runner which had a full production-ready interior and the complete drivetrain in an early state of tune. They chose to blank off visibility of any mechanical bits and the interior for the very same reasons. They were ready to show the entire car in all its glory and tell a lot more of its story - they'd been planning the Paris reveal for two years.

After Paris, McLaren actually removed the real camo off the P1s they are testing. Here's a before and after photo below. The graphics left on the cars have been on there since the beginning when they were still trying to preserve the secrets of the entire design.

I asked a very specific question in Paris about whether we'd start to see more of the P1 mules on the roads after the concept had been revealed and was told the masking would come off, the real bodywork would go on, but that they'd leave the graphics on them for fun. If you haven't heard, all those squiggly lines covering the bodywork are the track layouts of various racetracks around the world.

To take the sting out of it - yeah, I'm a McLaren fan boy. So what...?

>8^)
ER
Is that a new Holden UTE in the last pic?
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #4705  
Old 01-26-2013, 06:27 AM
F1 Veteran
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Denmark
Full Name: B. Frandsen
Posts: 7,479
And lets keep the McLaren pollution out of this thread.

There is already a thread for it in the British section as well as one for both the P1, the new Fcar and the Porsche 918 in this exact forum.
Reply With Quote
  #4706  
Old 01-26-2013, 06:34 AM
George330's Avatar
Formula Junior
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Zurich
Full Name: George
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympus View Post
I've heard that figure as well. It appears that seven figures in Euros are a big hurdle to break at the moment globally; a friend in Maranello also told me that Tata's reasoning behind the cancellation of the CX75 was very well noted by the bean counters there.
I agree. Not sure why people think that the car will fly out of the showrooms at 1.6-1.8mio USD. I sold a perfect Enzo with 1,000 miles and I can tell you they are not easy to sell at present. It takes months...I do not trust auction prices, I only trust the private deals that I have seen happen over the last 12 months and I can tell you that in Europe the ceiling for a perfect car is 1.2mm USD. If you think that is cheap, I will be happy to get you such a car... I doubt there is global demand for more than 20 perfect Enzos at these prices and they will go a little lower when the F150 is out and "re-saleable"

If the F150 comes with a contract restricting resale, most speculators will be discouraged from participating, so I don't think Ferrari will be able to get 500 firm orders for much more than 1.3-1.4mm

I think most people here read auction headlines and think those numbers apply to 500-car launches...Also people who buy the car -even if they are not speculators- want to be assured that their car will be worth at least the same 2 years time when they are allowed to sell it...There is NO precedent of a 1.5mm car that was made in 500 copies that has maintained its resale price... The Maclaren F1 was made in far smaller numbers, the Pagani was arguably too cheap for the first few cars and only made 133 Zondas (if I am not mistaken) and the Bugatti depreciates fast, even though total production is less than 500...The P1 is going to be around 1.1mm USD and I can tell you they are even calling prospective customers for the MP4 who didnt buy it...I got contacted yesterday...

In my opinion it would be an absolute disaster if Ferrari price the car too high and the car tanks 20-30% in 2 years...At the end of the day this is NOT just a money trade for Ferrari. An extra 100k for 500 cars is 50 million which pales into insignificance if the brand is damaged by poor after-sale performance
Reply With Quote
  #4707  
Old 01-26-2013, 07:19 AM
Olympus's Avatar
Karting
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In the driver's seat
Full Name: John
Posts: 132
Hi George,

these are my sentiments as well. In a sense, it is a big test for Ferrari as one of the special series cars will have such intense competition from day one. This is more so coming from a competitor that is present also in F1 and utilising a parallel technological path.

John

Last edited by Olympus; 01-26-2013 at 07:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4708  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:06 AM
M-individual's Avatar
Formula 3
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In my GTO, 612, 458C
Posts: 2,300
Makes a lot of sense what you wrote there George.
Reply With Quote
  #4709  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:29 AM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 73
Smile

Hi George

If you know of a perfect <1000 mile one owner Enzo for US1.200m then please pm me.
Reply With Quote
  #4710  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:50 AM
George330's Avatar
Formula Junior
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Zurich
Full Name: George
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by FXEFFECTS View Post
Hi George

If you know of a perfect <1000 mile one owner Enzo for US1.200m then please pm me.
I have a friend who's selling a car with 1200 miles...I will check and revert
Reply With Quote
  #4711  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:58 AM
F1 Rookie
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Worcester, England
Full Name: Phill J
Posts: 3,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchF1GTR View Post
I can appreciate the fact that Ferrari is some kind of God to people but the completely rubbish and seriously biased opinions of some people even with the solid facts out there.....
You're on a Ferrari based forum site so any bias should not come as a surprise quite frankly.

If you want a load of like minded people who agree with you and think that McLaren's latest offering is the greatest thing ever to wear four tyres then might I suggest you try posting on here: McLaren Chat or maybe here: McLarenchat: Breath And Bleed McLaren ?

(Having said that, those sites do look a tad lonely!)
Reply With Quote
  #4712  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:38 AM
Formula Junior
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by George330 View Post
(...)The P1 is going to be around 1.1mm USD and I can tell you they are even calling prospective customers for the MP4 who didnt buy it...I got contacted yesterday...

(...)
They give you any details about P1?
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #4713  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:00 AM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hampton Roads area
Posts: 114
im not the most avid poster on f-chat, i tend to lurk around and follow the news, but I have to say...it disheartens me to see such grade-school bickering over brand names. It's funny to a point, but then I remember the majority here are affluent, well heeled, smart people who know how to enjoy life. Seems like most of you have graduated from the schoolyard playground and gone to do great things with your lives. this begs the question then, why such a regression in maturity when it comes to McLaren vs Ferrari?

The insults are getting old and repetitive; post something constructive. Trying to shame people for their opinions different from your own is ridiculous and small. Yes, we're all very well aware this is a Ferrari forum, but honestly come on. In the 200+ pages of just this thread alone, the number of tangential conversations is enormous. Let people express themselves; if you dont like it, PM them or just ignore it. If it's really bad, the admins/mods can take care of it. /rant

Now that's out of the way, COME ON FERRARI! LEMME SEE THAT F70 ALREADY!!
Reply With Quote
  #4714  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:31 PM
omd78's Avatar
F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Breda, Netherlands
Full Name: Martin
Posts: 10,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympus View Post
My info is that there is significant doubt in Maranello about pricing and that they are sitting on a figure of 1.2M USD as an upper limit for a non-optioned F70. It appears that they understand that at any price over that, cars will most likely remain unsold or will take longer to be put into customer hands.

I doubt that the current Enzo pricing affects their decision-making process.

I believe that the matter of the name has been very recently settled.
Talking about options: what would be on the option list apart from special colors, racing livery and interior trim? Were there any options available for the Enzo?

Gr. Martin
Reply With Quote
  #4715  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:01 PM
Olympus's Avatar
Karting
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In the driver's seat
Full Name: John
Posts: 132
Options were limited when the Enzo was introduced. Mine had the losangato pattern seats, leather trimmed rear "wall" and a customised luggage set. Zanasi started playing with various requests from owners, leading to different colours, specially painted wheels, etc. I've personally seen only two Enzos that had trim that could be considered bespoke. Some cars also had electrically operated windows, the historians will need to tell us how many.

Ferrari at the time was actively campaining for owners to stay within the standard colour choice but there were exceptions, particularly if one was close to Marco Zanasi!

The seat size choice and the selection of seatbelt type are not strictly options in my book.

I assume things will be different with the F70, ie most cars will go through either the Atelier or Tailor Made program. The fact alone will help create some rather bespoke examples. I hear that there may be some engineering options or possibly a more elaborate way of setting an F70 up; we need to wait until mid February for that.

Last edited by Olympus; 01-26-2013 at 02:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4716  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:12 PM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 140
What's the lap Time for the enzo at fiorano? Because they say during private showing that the f70 Will do it quicker by more than five seconds
Reply With Quote
  #4717  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:24 PM
omd78's Avatar
F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Breda, Netherlands
Full Name: Martin
Posts: 10,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympus View Post
Options were limited when the Enzo was introduced. Mine had the losangato pattern seats, leather trimmed rear "wall" and a customised luggage set. Zanasi started playing with various requests from owners, leading to different colours, specially painted wheels, etc. I've personally seen only two Enzos that had trim that could be considered bespoke. Some cars also had electrically operated windows, the historians will need to tell us how many.

Ferrari at the time was actively campaining for owners to stay within the standard colour choice but there were exceptions, particularly if one was close to Marco Zanasi!

The seat size choice and the selection of seatbelt type are not strictly options in my book.

I assume things will be different with the F70, ie most cars will go through either the Atelier or Tailor Made program. The fact alone will help create some rather bespoke examples. I hear that there may be some engineering options or possibly a more elaborate way of setting an F70 up; we need to wait until mid February for that.
Thanks for your explanation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalmito View Post
What's the lap Time for the enzo at fiorano? Because they say during private showing that the f70 Will do it quicker by more than five seconds
1.24,9.

Gr. Martin
Reply With Quote
  #4718  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:26 PM
F1 Rookie
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Three Places
Posts: 4,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympus View Post
One comment on the Macca vs Ferrari thing. I personally prefer Ferrari, warts 'n all, to the black-and-white, ultra efficient image of McLaren. I can very easily see why possibly Ferrari is looking again at some F70 details; these two cars are benchmarking a sector again and, always imo, the set up at McLaren may help more compared to heritage-driven Maranello.

Porsche is imo part of a Group that acts according to a defined balance within. For me, this will always detract in spirit, regardless of how unquestionably capable their cars are.
This conforms to my view of the spirit of the three: Ferrari, McLaren, and Porsche. They have carved out their respective pieces of the hypercar space.
Ferrari will stand for passion, style, and heritage.
McLaren will stand for technology, the avante garde, and sterility.
Porsche will stand for Bauhaus simplicity, balanced industrial forms, and evolution.
All will offer exceptional performance with the small differences among them creating an industry of its own. .
Reply With Quote
  #4719  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:30 PM
Olympus's Avatar
Karting
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In the driver's seat
Full Name: John
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalmito View Post
What's the lap Time for the enzo at fiorano? Because they say during private showing that the f70 Will do it quicker by more than five seconds
Is there a system as to how these showings are implemented? Europe seems to be following rather slowly.

TIA

John
Reply With Quote
  #4720  
Old 01-26-2013, 05:29 PM
PSk PSk is offline
F1 World Champ
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sydney Australia
Full Name: Pete
Posts: 14,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noblesse Oblige View Post
This conforms to my view of the spirit of the three: Ferrari, McLaren, and Porsche. They have carved out their respective pieces of the hypercar space.
Ferrari will stand for passion, style, and heritage.
McLaren will stand for technology, the avante garde, and sterility.
Porsche will stand for Bauhaus simplicity, balanced industrial forms, and evolution.
All will offer exceptional performance with the small differences among them creating an industry of its own. .
Hmmm, not sure I agree with the simplicity comment. The 959 was extremely complex and so is the 918.
Pete
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 AM.


FerrariChat.com has no association with Ferrari S.p.A.
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.