My 308 versus my Toyota MR2 | FerrariChat

My 308 versus my Toyota MR2

Discussion in '308/328' started by ATSAaron, Aug 29, 2011.

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  1. ATSAaron

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    #1 ATSAaron, Aug 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It's been a while since I posted on FChat. The 308 has been sitting patiently in the garage. I had to replace the battery recently (my own fault for not keeping a trickle charger on it). I have driven my son to daycare in in a couple times in the last few months, but that's been the most use it has seen. On one of the last trips I rolled down the driver's side window and it disappeared into the door....again. My guess is that one of the pulleys came off and dropped the cable. Just another thing to add to the list. I really need to get it back on the dyno and set the ignition timing. I had it just about perfect when I made this 184whp pull.

    Being a family of three now my two seater cars don't get that much daily use. But the one that gets the most use is my 1991 Toyota MR2. I own ATS Racing; We specialize in Toyota MR2's and this one is a constant test bed for our products. Our latest is a big bore, super stroker (88mm bore and 95mm stroke) that totals 2.311 liters (it's a 4 cylinder). Just about everything on the motor is reworked. The turbo kit uses a Precision 6765 ceramic ball bearing turbo with a billet compressor wheel and a .63 AR T3 exhaust housing. It runs on E85 (85% ethanol and 15% gasoline); its available about 2 blocks from my shop.

    It has sort of progressive boost control to keep from completely blowing the tires off. I start the boost about 1.3 bar and ramp it up until I am running about 1.9 bar at redline (just under 9000rpm). The peak VE for best horsepower is about 7600 rpm, so if I ramped in the boost sooner I could make another 50whp or so. But the weather got too hot before I had time to try that. The tires are 275/40R17 drag radials btw.

    Here is how it stacks up against my 308:
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  2. Newman

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    #2 Newman, Aug 29, 2011
    Now you need a chart that shows the level of "cool".
     
  3. ATSAaron

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    #3 ATSAaron, Jan 16, 2012
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    Again, it's been forever since I have visited Ferrari Chat.

    I recently bought a 1988 MR2 to add to my collection. It's mid engined, gets 30mpg, Toyota reliability and was under $2000. You just can beat the value.
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  4. ATSAaron

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    #4 ATSAaron, Jan 16, 2012
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  5. 4re Nut

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    #5 4re Nut, Jan 16, 2012
    Fixed it for you.

    Nice! That for < $2K?! What kind of shape was it in at time of purchase?

    Yep, I think I still have it buried in a stack of old car mags...somewhere.
     
  6. ATSAaron

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    #6 ATSAaron, Jan 16, 2012
    Thanks for the correction. I dumb. haha.

    I have been looking for a clean 87-89 MR2 for about a year. This one showed up on Craigslist with a stuck on chrome hood scoop and chrome side vents. Luckily they were held on with just adhesive. The interior was/is about perfect. I bought it for $1300.

    I added the wheels, suspension techniques springs and KYB struts. None of it is premium stuff, but my total investment is under $2000 so far.

    Aaron
     
  7. 3forty8

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    #7 3forty8, Jan 16, 2012
    That's awesome! I really dug my MR2 MKII's - I had a 91 hardtop, a 93 t-top and a 95 hardtop. When I got the 348 I figured having a bunch of 2 seaters wasn't really practical with kids, so I started selling them off. I miss them from time to time, I wish I had kept one to use as a track car - fantastic little cars with bullet-proof engines.
     
  8. thecarreaper

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    #8 thecarreaper, Jan 16, 2012
    Ive owned 5 MR2's :) .

    They are a BLAST !
     
  9. MS250

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    #9 MS250, Jan 16, 2012
    my wife - at the time my girlfriend had a 88 fiero or 89, last year of production - was a sweet car too - the good old days.
     
  10. Roger103

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    #10 Roger103, Jan 16, 2012
    I might get scrutinized over this. How about the X1/9? Clearly the MR2 and Fiero were trying to copy the X1/9. In fact the X1/9 seems to get compared to the 308 alot. Which one was designed 1st the X1/9 or the 308? I think the X was out well before any of these cars being mentioned.
     
  11. GrigioGuy

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    #11 GrigioGuy, Jan 16, 2012
    The X preceded both, but the 914 pre-production was before the X. HOWEVER, the Dino GTS is before all of them.
     
  12. MS250

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    #12 MS250, Jan 16, 2012
    never had one, seen them when i was a kid - i would think they were smaller from what i recall - i remember a good friend of mine bought one of the first firebirds in 84 that looked like a ferrari 308 back then from far away - though bigger -

    the fiero was a mess, but the last year of production they were somewhat solid as the mr2 - the fiat though, i would think was a different cat, and maybe not as reliable ? i dont know...but it was a cute car
     
  13. ATSAaron

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    #13 ATSAaron, Jan 17, 2012
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    The X1/9 has always been a favorite of mine too. The MKI MR2 is like a FAT X1/9, haha. I think the X1/9 is about 500 lbs lighter than the MKI MR2, but most of them are so smogged up they only have about half the horsepower. The (lack of) reliability and age of the X1/9 made finding one of those impractical.

    I have about 7 MR2's right now. Only three of them are in the "permanent collection" though. I tend to buy them as projects and flip them.

    This is my 91 turbo (excuse the condition of my yard):
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  14. ATSAaron

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    #14 ATSAaron, Jan 17, 2012
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    I put it back on the dyno right after Christmas. I recently made soem changes to the crankcase ventilation system that would allow me to up the boost a little more. The previous 639whp pull was with the boost controller turned off.

    With the boost controller on it does this:
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  15. ATSAaron

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    #15 ATSAaron, Jan 17, 2012
    The tiny red line at the bottom is the dyno graph of a 100% bone stock 1991 MR2. You can see that even though I have a gigantic turbo on there, the modern ball bearing technology and billet wheels give the virtually no lag compared to stock.

    Mods are as follows:
    ATS 2.3 Stroker
    98+ 5S-FE (Camry) block and crank
    3S-GTE (original MR2) head with 1mm oversized intake valves, and 1mm oversize exhaust valves
    Heavily Modified Cylinder Head to allow installation of High Lift Cams
    ZZW30 (MR2 Spyder) Shimless Buckets
    Eagle Rods
    ATS Racing/Wiseco Pistons 88mm total bore 8.5:1 Compression Ratio
    Balanced, Blueprinted, etc
    GSC S2 278 intake cam 11.2mm lift
    GSC S2 278 exhaust cam 11.0mm lift
    ATS Racing Adjustable Cam gears
    Custom Straight Runner Intake Manifold
    ATS Racing Valve Springs
    ATS EGR block off plates
    ATS Racing MLS 1.0mm head gasket for Late 5SFE Blocks
    ATS Racing L19 Head Studs
    BBK 70mm Throttle Body
    ATS Racing 6765 turbo kit
    Precision 67mm compressor, 65mm turbine, .63 A/R T3 Exhaust Housing
    Ceramic Dual Ball Bearing Center Section
    H Compressor Housing .70 A/R 4" inlet 3" outlet
    Precision 46mm External Wastegate
    ATS Racing Top Mount Tubular Exhaust Manifold
    ATS Racing Trunk Mount Intercooler
    3" Aluminum Piping from Turbo to Intercooler
    3" Aluminum Piping from Intercooler to Throttle Body
    Tial Blow Off Valve
    Ebay Dual Muffler Exhaust – I also have a Greddy Power Extreme, but it seemed too quiet for such a wild car
    ATS Racing 4" Intake
    Open K&N filter
    Apexi Power FC Pro ECU
    Pro Version uses ignition cut for rev limit and has 2 step rev limiter available below ~5mph (for drag launch control)
    modified by ATS Racing for use with 1993 engine harness and 1991 body harness
    Apexi AVC-R Boost Controler
    ATS 4 Bar MAP sensor
    Runs on E85 fuel
    ATS Racing Top Feed Fuel Rail (modified by ATS for dual feed)
    ID2000 2200cc Injectors (that's over 210 pounds of fuel per hour, EACH)
    Dual Walbro In-Tank Fuel Pumps
    Rebuilt 91 transmission
    Kaaz LSD
    Clutch Masters FX700 Twin Disk Clutch with Steel Flywheel
    ATS CV Joints/Axles
    Volk Gram Light 57 Pro Wheels
    17x8 front 17x9 rear Offsets are 40mm F and R
    Front Tires: Falken Azenis 235/40R17
    Rear Tires: Mickey Thomspon ET Street Drag Radial 275/40R17

    I can daily drive this car and my daily commute includes dropping a 4yr old off at daycare in the middle of the UNT college campus, so yes it's very driveable.. Just have to be responsible with the go pedal.

    Aaron
     
  16. ATSAaron

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    #16 ATSAaron, Jan 17, 2012
  17. Ehamilton

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    #17 Ehamilton, Jan 17, 2012
    Depends on how hard you look... Rock-solid drivers for $1,000-$5,000 are easy to find, parts are absurdly cheap and readily available. I'd consider a decent X1/9 to be the real "starter Ferrari".... but I might be biased, as I own five of them. :)
     
  18. shmark

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    #18 shmark, Jan 17, 2012
    That is awesome! Incredible how once the turbo spools up it completely drowns out the exhaust. Nice work!

    Also love the '88, would make a great daily driver. Now you have me surfing the classifieds for a clean MR2...wonder if I can find a supercharged example.
     
  19. Dino V

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    #19 Dino V, Jan 17, 2012
    Nice numbers! Have always been a fan of the MR-2.
     
  20. ATSAaron

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    #20 ATSAaron, Jan 17, 2012
    The supercharged 88-89's are rare, but they are actually easier to find in good shape. Expect to pay $3000-$5000 for one.

    Aaron
     
  21. DGS

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    #21 DGS, Jan 17, 2012
    So why did Toyota stop making the MR-2?

    Ferrari still makes mid engine V8 cars. ;)


    Of course, I joke that I bought a 328 because I couldn't find a good MR-2T. :p
    (At the time, my winter rat was an ST-165, and the MR-2T used the same 3sGTE mill.)
     
  22. DWPC

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    #22 DWPC, Jan 17, 2012
    I think the audible whine you're hearing is the dyno drums spinning.
     
  23. ATSAaron

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    #23 ATSAaron, Jan 17, 2012
    the yen got weak. The price increased from $22,000 in 1991 to $32,000 by 1995 for basically the same car. 200hp, even though mid engined didn't stack up too well against the 1992+ 300hp Corvette for basically the same money. Sales dwindled, Toyota quit importing them in 1995. They were produced in Japan until 1999.

    I had a ST165. Scott (a co-owner here at ATS) is looking for a nice ST165 right now actually.

    Aaron
     
  24. thecarreaper

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    #24 thecarreaper, Jun 22, 2017
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  25. syata

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    #25 syata, Jun 22, 2017
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    I agree with EHAMILTON as well. I have had a 1986 X1/9 for years and this year got a 1986 328. I like working on the X1/9 to learn for when I need to do any repairs on the 328. My opinion, they are set up similarly. Though the X1/9 has much less power it is as enjoyable to drive as my 328. I wish the X1/9 had more (lateral) space - my main complaint. I used a 1980 as my daily driver car (1985-1991) and use my 1986 X1/9 as my non-rain weather commuter car.

    If I had to go the reverse (328 first), I may look at what I wanted in the 'collection' that the 328 did not offer. In my opinion, as long as the car is well maintained the car will be reliable, but with all older cars, parts can break.

    I don't think you can get a well sorted X1/9 for $2k. Seems the market for the X1/9 has gone up a little. Nice rust free well sorted X1/9 seem to be $4k-6k range. I would test sit in one first --- they interior is very tiny...not sure how much room the MR2 or Fierro has.

    I call my X1/9 and 328 the little and big brother ;-)
     
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