Fram vs Baldwin filters / 308 question(s)

Hi Rick,
I'll be very interested to see how quickly your oil pressure comes up in the morning with the Baldwin, as I just put on a Baldwin oil filter on my 328 today, replacing an UFI.
Cheers,
Grahame

 

Ahah. Thanks to your young accompanying girl Star and that nice raucous performance on the brass pole Saturday night at the e-club, must have lasted about 15 minites. I hardly lasted 3 min due to crappy meds.

How can I repay you? I so appreciated your presentation which afterwords expanded into a rousing enlightening technical discussion explained how torching Talaban children (you promisead no babies remember) produced special hormones which they inject into the oil pipeline. Then after distillation, gasoline fails to chemically bond with the US local corn/ethanol additive causing our cars get plagued with exhaust chemicals which causes the populus to support yet another increase in wages and benefits of federal workers.

Subtle, these CIA plans, but effective. Lovely Star loves to repeat 'efficacious' afterwords each night...so sweet. Bottom line the oil flowing through the Fram Filter after reaching the gauge gives low readings which no one suspects, yet. The complete conspiracy was explained as the Fram keeps the oil properly backed up inside engine where it will do some actual good scouring the bearings and reducing friction of the sodium filled valve stems without dripping onto the garage floor.

Whereas the Baldwin filter removes the illicit baby hormones from the ethanol without fuss and lets the oil excape in/around/ and out of the engine and run loose into the gauge where the high pressure it presents calls for a 9 step cholestoral intervention. Automation skips 3 of the 12 steps.

Conjourning up those high number's on the gauges it a Hollywood trick for ratings, probably use a green screen to produce the effect. Baldwin is simply in the business for show. Wait until the full movie comes out explaining the UFI filter. Remember, high pressure means the oil is stressed and passes that on to the engine. Low pressure means the oil is serious. Which would you rather?

 

I've checked eBay but can't find pressure gauges with those yellow arrows. Are they custom?

 

Paul,

Exqueeze me?

 

Don't know you that well. Maybe after a few drinks.

 

Restriction in flow causes a pressure increase. I would say the pressure is higher with the bladwin because it is causing more of a restriction in the supply passage between the pump and filter due to better filtering vs the Fram. Do you need filtering better than the Fram? Probably not but the Fram filter is known to cause problems with dry starts due to drain back whereas the Baldwin B253 is a very good hydraulic filter thats just better built.

 

If everything is equal - engine temperature at ambient air and same temp at start-up, eng temp same and rpm same when oil pressure was re-checked, and same oil, the results would indicate that the Fram has less internal restriction than the Baldwin.

Higher oil pressure doesn't mean "better," it just means there is greater resistance to the oil moving through the system. If, at the same temp/rpm a change of filter changed the pressure, than it was due to more/less restriction in the filter.

For example, let's say you insert something in an oil passage between the pump and main bearings to restrict the flow. When you run the engine, the gauge will show much higher oil pressure (within the limit of the oil pressure relief valve) but the engine will be actually receiving much less oil than it needs. It appears (again IF, ALL other factors are unchanged) that the Baldwin created a restriction that the Fram did not.

But I'd be very cautious with that conclusion simply because of the other variables involved.

 

IMHO the gauge is just not that reliable an indicator. Now I don't know if that is due to age or design. What I do know is that watching that damn thing every time I drive takes a lot of the fun out of the experience. So, I now use it as an idiot light only. I make sure I have oil to the mark after drives on the dip stick, make sure I have pressure before I drive off, and am breaking my habit of looking at the damn gauge while driving. As far as filters are concerned, there most likely is something to be said about Fram filters no longer living up to expectations any more. I have looked for myself and have seen collapsed and torn innards. So, I use the Baldwins, end of story, for now anyway. I like your scientific method of evaluating the pressure difference between the two filters but like any study there are variables that need to be addressed before making any conclusions. The first would be using a direct pressure reading device with known accuracy, then I would like to see pressure curves over time. I am sure that a new filter element and one under use for a time would measure differently, maybe,who know's, another variable. Then you would need to develope a correlation between pressure and any damage occuring to the engine. That would envolve very precise teardowns and measurements. In other words I think realistically we need to have faith in the designers of the engines, oil manufacturers and filter makers and then use common sense because none of these questions will ever be answered completely. So, in my analysis of this whole situation, nothing I do will prevent something that I have no real control over. If my oil pump fails it will not be because I used an oil with a few ppm zinc less, on the other hand if my Fram oil filter shoots thru the deck lid because the innards collapsed well that I could have prevented , maybe, so I will use Baldwin.

 

I also used to be a Fram user many years ago. I changed to Baldwin based on my work with marine diesel engines so I use Baldwins exclusively in everything now. As far as oil pressure is concerned, as long as the pressure is within specs, there is nothing to be concerned about. The fact that it may be a bit higher or lower with different oil/filter is meaningless if it's within spec for the engine.

As I recall, 3x8 (well, 328, anyway) spec is between 71-85 PSI at 6000 RPM. As long as it meets that spec it's fine.

As noted, pressure should be checked with a mechanical gauge for true pressure. The dash gauge is fine for relative changes but until it's calibrated against a mech gauge, you really have no idea what the actual pressure is.

FWIW, on cold start up with ambient temp at around 70 degrees, my 328 gauge takes 2.4 seconds for the idiot light to extinguish/needle show pressure with Mobil 1 0W40 and a Baldwin filter.

 

Oil pressure sensor is next to filter. Changing filter could have disloged something in the sensor. Change back to the Fram and see what the reading is then.

 

I noticed EXACTLY the same thing yesterday when I took the GT4 out for a drive after changing the oil (Brad Penn 20/50) and Baldwin. Pressure was the same before and after as indicated by the arrows on your post. My Fram was collapsed when I cut it apart.

 

Anyone notice the "new" mobile 1 for older cars. Has more zinc on the lable. Question: Is it safe?

 

The new 0W-50 'racing only' synthetic oil is excellent. It essentially has the previously allowed levels of zddp and then some which makes it excellent for our engines. Mobil 1 gets away with this by stating, "for track use only". This way they don't have to pass the certifications which limit the amount of zddp. They say, "not for use with catalytic convertors".


Standard Mobil 1 15w-50 synthetic has 1300 ZDDP while the racing 0w-50 has 1850. Not enough to cause serious Cat harm IMO

 

The oil pressure sensor is located downstream of the oil filter element (i.e., it measures the oil pressure exiting the oil filter). Those results show the Fram filter element as being more restrictive (if you've still got it, and don't mind getting messy, can you cut it open to see if the internal element is collapsed as Patrick found?). Nothing more (or better) you can do about that now that you've replaced it with the Baldwin .

 

That sounds good but my car has the cats. But I saw a new Mobile 1 for vintage cars with more Zinc advertised on the label. I will double check later to be sure.

 

Is that an issue if correct variant (-1) of the Fram filter is used? The -1 has a standpipe.

Rick

 

How old or how many miles were on it?

Rick

 

Regardless of how accurate the gauge is, as long as it reads consistently, it should be good for relative readings. Whether one filter flows better than the other depends upon whether the sender is located up or down stream of the filter media it's crossing. Lastly, I've cut a few Fram filters apart at work out of curiosity, and while in all my years of selling them I've never had a complaint lodged by a customer, their internal construction leaves a lot to be desired. I'd say the Baldwin has to be the better choice-or Wix if they do Ferraris..

 

Somehow I flopped the filters in my mind somehow when I posted my first response. As Steve pointed out, in that "test," the Fram shows higher restriction than the Baldwin.


Re ZDDP. All the research I have done, on a lot of oil tech and engine tech sites (not oil or additive sellers) indicate that ZDDP concern is a non issue on these engines. On other than flat tappet motors any normal oil sold today has plenty of friction-related capability to provide all the lubrication necessary.

But like anything, do what you are comfortable doing.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz43C8jzdIA[/ame]

Approx 2,000 miles. It was on the car when I purchased it from the previous owner.

I have not and would not use a Fram filter. Period.

 

This was the reason for my low oil pressure.

Backk to Baldwin and all is good.

chris
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I forgot to add that I bend knee and pray to the Ferrari gods to look kindly upon me as I venture out of the garage.

 

It looks like they just changed the printed labeling on the outside (I don't remember seeing the multiple languages before) -- but your surgery will reveal all...

Yes -- see the figure on page C2 in the 308GT4 WSM.