308 vs. Testarossa

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Bullfighter

I wouldn't call anything after the Daytona/246 timeless. But I would call the 328 and Euro 308 the landmark sports car design of its era.

Agreed and any wedge car is 80's to me, my boxer included but I love the lines among other things. Just wish the 308 had 288 power.

[GrayTA]

I realize we could debate the merits of any given car from now until the end of time and never come to any sort of conclusion.

I agree with the earlier poster that said that people who shop for one arent really going to be in the market for the other. Maybe thats due to personal taste, maybe due to upkeep, maybe due to entrance cost?? The cars are very different in character, appearance, and performance for all the reasons stated above.

My opinion is that the Testarossa does look quite a bit more "dated" than the 308 although the design has aged well and never really was "uncool." I think that the 308 is perhaps more popular due to its many appearances in television/movie, although the Testarossa seems to have had some successes on its own.

Both are icons in their own right. Keep in mind that of the more than 10 year runs of both cars the 308 (1975-85)and Testarossa(1984-96) only really overlapped in 1984/1985, so the better comparison might be the 328 and Testarossa if you want to compare contemporaries. The QV would obviously be the best comparison of the 308 cars though.

So, this whole argument really comes down to are you comparing apples to apples...


PDG

[BlueMax]

Given initial costs, service/upkeep and likely future value, the 308 GTS QV is probably the better financial move. But, ultimately, you have to buy what you like and not regard it as an investment.[/QUOTE]

+1

Get what you like. For me, nothing is better than the 308 styling and the general "usability" of the car. If maintained properly, it can last a lifetime and is easily maintainable by the owner who is so inclined to turn a wrench every now and again. I would definitely agree that a great no-nonsense "starter" (which again, I hate that phrase) car would be one that is easy for acquisition (cost) and doesn't need the same attention as a 30+ year old car. The 360 would definitely fit the bill there. Especially with prices coming down the way they are.

The fact that people have bought 308s as "starter cars" over the years lends to why there are some pretty ragged out examples out there: folks buy them and think since it is a starter car, and I am just going to sell it, I don't really have to take care of it. So with that mentality, in about 10 years, you will probably start to see a lot of ragged-out 360s floating around.

Bottom Line: buy what you like AND can not only afford to buy, but afford to maintain. If you use this formula, your Ferrari ownership experience will be a good one.

[BlueMax]

Thought this might be of interest to the group. It's Saddam's TR. He hasn't really been able to maintain it that well....

[Bullfighter]

Originally Posted by Scaledetails

360 F1 as a first Ferrari?? For who? Automatic has better re-sale value? What are you thinking? Hands down the 328 is still todays' best first Ferrari for anyone. Best maintenance costs, most reliable V8, and as you said, a landmark sportscar.

The 328 is today's best first/last Ferrari as a long-term keeper, among the post-vintage cars.

But: I see a lot of newcomers thinking that because they can get a 328 for $50K that it is a "starter" car while an $80K 360 is "one to move up to". I disagree that they're comparable. A 328 demands completely different priorities from its owner -- aesthetics over absolute performance, sporting cockpit over luxury, exertion over automation, etc. The 360 is a Ferrari that someone accustomed to modern cars can simply step into and drive without learning the intracies of old Ferrari ergonomics, a temperamental gearbox, bizarre "climate control", old spec brakes, etc. This isn't necessarily bad -- Ferrari sold 17,000 360s because they paid attention to the upscale car market. The 308/328 were peculiar cars in their day -- no one else made a manual gearbox that had a reluctant second gear until warm, for example.

As long as we keep defining "starter Ferrari" based solely on price, we're doing a disservice to guys just starting out.

If someone buys a 328 because they love the 328, I'm hugely supportive, for all the usual reasons: well-built Ferrari, maintainable, real driver's car, looks great, uncomplicated targa top, etc.

If someone buys a 328 because it's cheaper than some other newer Ferrari that they would have preferred, they're setting themselves up for disappointment. (I'm reminded of a Boxer "resto-mod" featured in Forza a year or two back, where the owner "wanted" a Boxer and then proceeded to tear it apart and go nuts with carbon fibre, etc. -- which tells me he didn't **really** want a Boxer, but a modern car with classic looks.)

Given $80K of my own money, I would absolutely take a pristine 328 over a 360. But I have a bias toward older cars. I think they are more honest, and more likely to endure over time (physically, and in terms of obsolescence, and with regard to driving involvement). Every time I see Malcolm B's yellow Daytona at the Bella Italia show in San Diego, I lose interest in pretty much everything else. While they are not at the 365 GTB/4 level in terms of lustworthiness, I would put the 308 and 328 firmly into 'great old car' territory, which IMHO is a great place to be.

But the reality is that most younger people, especially, have grown up in the Porsche 996/Ferrari 360 era. I think it's disingenuous to lump all the '80s Ferraris into "starter" territory, just as it would be useless to tell the prospective Lotus Elise owner to start with a '60s Lotus Elite.

Given that analogy, and given that the 308/328 is basically a 1970s design/architecture, I would strongly encourage prospective owners to experience the 308/328, but I would not look at it as some kind of stopgap model until you've saved up enough cash to buy something newer.

[TheMac]

Has anyone on this thread mentioned... what a wonderful problem to have? Deciding between a 308 or a Testarossa? Oh, the misery!

[ClydeM]

I own a 308Qv and I love it.
But if a Testarossa came my way, I'd own it too.
Two different cars. Two gorgeous cars. Saw a Testarossa pull into the Cars & Croissants today. It still makes me smile.

If I wanted reliability and comfort, I'd look at a 360.
If I wanted speed, I'd be looking at a Challenge or Scuderia

[wazie7262]

I like the TR, especially when it has larger rims a la the 512 TR fitted; REALLY helps the look, I think. However...it is a 3700 pound car. Most Ferraris are too heavy in my book. As I've mentioned in a couple of previous threads, I wish Ferrari would significantly cut the fat, as they did with the F40. The TR has 390 HP but, again, it weighs 3700 pounds. Why SO freaking heavy?? My 328 at 3100-3200 pounds is also too heavy, especially given the HP. I will take less HP and less weight over more HP and more weight any day. Thus a TR would not be for me. Now...a 365 BB...sigh...

:-)

[Newman]

Originally Posted by wazie7262

Now...a 365 BB...sigh...

:-)

Now THATS a low maintenance ferrari!

[matthew-s]

Originally Posted by ClydeM

I own a 308Qv and I love it.
But if a Testarossa came my way, I'd own it too.
Two different cars. Two gorgeous cars. Saw a Testarossa pull into the Cars & Croissants today. It still makes me smile.

If I wanted reliability and comfort, I'd look at a 360.
If I wanted speed, I'd be looking at a Challenge or Scuderia

Was the blue GTS yours? I was there with my son yesterday.

[furmano]

Originally Posted by Newman

...any wedge car is 80's to me, my boxer included but I love the lines among other things...

Though I know what you guys are getting at, I don't think the Boxer/308/328 are truly "wedge" designs.

If you look at the subtleties of the design of their noses, from the nicely bowed profile, to the dished out or lowered center portion, there is much more to the design than just a door stop shaped wedge as found on other cars of the time like the Countach, 308 GT4, Lotus Esprit, Triumph TR8, etc.

I would consider the Boxer/308/328 to have more of a knife edge look.

When people, who admittedly aren't knowledgeable about exotic cars in general, see my car in person, think the car gorgeous and think it was built relatively recently.

Great design can be from a certain era AND be timeless, that is, attractive in any time. There is no doubt in my mind that these cars fit that description.

-F

[ClydeM]

Originally Posted by matthew-s

Was the blue GTS yours? I was there with my son yesterday.

No. I might have left by then, but mine was the red/tan next to it.

[Schaden]

Originally Posted by GrayTA

My opinion is that the Testarossa does look quite a bit more "dated" than the 308 although the design has aged well and never really was "uncool." I think that the 308 is perhaps more popular due to its many appearances in television/movie, although the Testarossa seems to have had some successes on its own.

I remember having matchbox cars of both. The 308/328 has classic styling and is the best design of its time. But the Testarossa has an aura to it. It screams exotic. It's just a legendary car and the end of an era.
The 308/328 live on in the 458 Italia, but Ferrari doesn't make anything equivalent to the boxer/testarossa anymore.

[huichoval]

Originally Posted by gil308

I really dislike when people say that. A LOT of people buy 308s because of a silly little reason...THEY LIKE THEM. I bought mine because I always liked the styling...still do, even prefer it to the styling of the TR. Not because it was a stepping stone to a "real" Ferrari. When I see a TR, it's pretty cool. When I see a 308, my heart races.

Ok...I'm done venting

+100000000

[Robb]

Jon, I take my hat off and salute your post.

"Hi I'm Robb."

"Hi Robb - says the group sitting in a circle."

"I am a 328 lover. No other car can do it for me in all the categories." Says Robb

"That's ok Robb, we've tried to like others also. Welcome to our support group for those that have reached the end of the journey." - says the group sitting in a circle. "Let's hear from our next owner, Augustine, what would you like to say?"

Originally Posted by Bullfighter

The 328 is today's best first/last Ferrari as a long-term keeper, among the post-vintage cars.

But: I see a lot of newcomers thinking that because they can get a 328 for $50K that it is a "starter" car while an $80K 360 is "one to move up to". I disagree that they're comparable. A 328 demands completely different priorities from its owner -- aesthetics over absolute performance, sporting cockpit over luxury, exertion over automation, etc. The 360 is a Ferrari that someone accustomed to modern cars can simply step into and drive without learning the intracies of old Ferrari ergonomics, a temperamental gearbox, bizarre "climate control", old spec brakes, etc. This isn't necessarily bad -- Ferrari sold 17,000 360s because they paid attention to the upscale car market. The 308/328 were peculiar cars in their day -- no one else made a manual gearbox that had a reluctant second gear until warm, for example.

As long as we keep defining "starter Ferrari" based solely on price, we're doing a disservice to guys just starting out.

If someone buys a 328 because they love the 328, I'm hugely supportive, for all the usual reasons: well-built Ferrari, maintainable, real driver's car, looks great, uncomplicated targa top, etc.

If someone buys a 328 because it's cheaper than some other newer Ferrari that they would have preferred, they're setting themselves up for disappointment. (I'm reminded of a Boxer "resto-mod" featured in Forza a year or two back, where the owner "wanted" a Boxer and then proceeded to tear it apart and go nuts with carbon fibre, etc. -- which tells me he didn't **really** want a Boxer, but a modern car with classic looks.)

Given $80K of my own money, I would absolutely take a pristine 328 over a 360. But I have a bias toward older cars. I think they are more honest, and more likely to endure over time (physically, and in terms of obsolescence, and with regard to driving involvement). Every time I see Malcolm B's yellow Daytona at the Bella Italia show in San Diego, I lose interest in pretty much everything else. While they are not at the 365 GTB/4 level in terms of lustworthiness, I would put the 308 and 328 firmly into 'great old car' territory, which IMHO is a great place to be.

But the reality is that most younger people, especially, have grown up in the Porsche 996/Ferrari 360 era. I think it's disingenuous to lump all the '80s Ferraris into "starter" territory, just as it would be useless to tell the prospective Lotus Elise owner to start with a '60s Lotus Elite.

Given that analogy, and given that the 308/328 is basically a 1970s design/architecture, I would strongly encourage prospective owners to experience the 308/328, but I would not look at it as some kind of stopgap model until you've saved up enough cash to buy something newer.

[gil308]

Originally Posted by Scaledetails

The 308 is a great starter Ferrari, the TR isn't. I should know, my first 9 Ferraris were all V8's! I wasn't bashing your 308 passion, glad to see the old lady gives you that feeling.

The 308 is a great Ferrari...not great starter Ferrari...great Ferrari. And if you had 9, only the first would be, in your words, the starter. The others are cause they are great

Old Lady? At 25? Sure wish I could find an "old lady" as my next girlfriend -- But then I will be labeled a "dirty old man"...again.

[Birdman]

Bullfighter has nailed it, as usual.

[gil308]

Originally Posted by Birdman

Bullfighter has nailed it, as usual.

+1

And for the record...that's what I was trying to say

[mustardfj40]

Originally Posted by Birdman

Bullfighter has nailed it, as usual.

The dude got it!

[PhilB]

Originally Posted by shashi27

Been lurking around for awhile and looking at the market. The Testarossas appear to be depreciating to $40K - $45K for a good example. I love the 308 but wouldn't the 12 cylinder Ferrari likely appreciate more quickly in the future assuming servicing is up to date. Seems a little strange that the QVs are just shy or slighlty more than their big brothers.

Drive a TR, drive a QV, drive a carb'd 308, and a 328. Drive a 355, a BB, and anything else you can get your hands around. Drive a 911, and a newer Vette as well.

Then decide which you like best, and search for the best example of that model you can find.

While maintenance costs should be a factor in the decision, it shouldn't be the only or main factor. If you love the car, you'll find a way to come up with the money for maintenance, or you will learn to do it yourself, or both.

The price appreciation factor should not measure into this decision at all.

You look to be about 60 miles from where I live, if you want to see/drive the best, most gorgeous '84 308QV out there you're more than welcome to come by.

Also, peruse the NYC part of F-Chat, the Jersey and NYC guys have quite a few get togethers especially this time of year, and you can see an assortment of cars up close and talk with their owners. I've met them a couple times and they are a really nice group of people.

Phil