I've always heard people say "Buy 1990 or later...the 2.7 Motronic is lots better," etc. But if you find a mint 89 348, is that so bad? I mean, so what if it has the 2.5 Motronic? What's the big deal? Is this all overblown? Finally, how much less $$$ is an 89 worth than a comparable condition 90-93 model?
The 1989 348 is fine. It has an external radio antenna, no mouse motors, and conventional seat belts. It is missing later year 348 updates such as the cam seal leak fix. The 1989 348 also has the more expensive (but perhaps superior) dual clutch. The Motronic 2.5 is fine, but is outclassed by the Motronic 2.7's better software, more fuel maps, workable rev limiter, etc. For instance, some of the Motronic 2.5 fuel maps are loaded into memory one section for up to 2,500 RPMs and then the ECU has to load in another map as you pass 2,500 RPMS going up to 7200+ rpms...leaving open the possibility of a brief stutter considering that the 2 Air/Fuel ECUs might not load maps perfectly in time (you are dealing with software and data on 1980's era ROMs that vary slightly in speed based upon heat, among other things). Interestingly enough, that only happens on a few of the 2.5 fuel maps. Most of the fuel maps are 1 map for all rpms. So the 2.5 is fine, but not as good as the Motronic 2.7 (large amounts of air/fuel software updates). I've got a thread on the 2.5 fuel maps going on the tech section right now, in fact.
I agree with the above. I've had no problems with mine. Buy one for less, use the extra bucks for any upgrades! Drive it like ya stole it.
Agree, any early well kept 348 will be worth the buy no matter what, I would never frown upon one, the 348 is such a great car for the money. Stephane Scaledetails
OK. I'll "me too" the thread. The 348, IMHO, blows away the 328 in every catagory, period. They can be had for the same price, or even less than a late model 328 and they DRIVE much better. Yes, a service is more expensive, but well worth it to me. I'm currently selling my 348 Turbo, (need to raise some $$$), but I'd buy another in a minute, when finances allow. I'd also have a 348 "stocker" without hesitation. Big bang for your Ferrari dollar.
I have a 1989 348 (and an early 89 at that) and am VERY happy I bought it. I was unaware at the time of purchase about the whole PPI / service records / major service needs etc... I was an uninformed buyer. Good thing. If I had read all about the 'buy a 1990 or later' I might have passed up a great car. It turns out the previous owner did extensive servicing, had all the records, used a great shop, and had the car mechanically in very good condition. Since becoming 'informed' I find the 89 to be good for a few reasons. The seat belts in my dad's 94 348 might make me a little crazy, and I prefer the seats of the 89. The bottom cushion of the later year cars can sometimes seperate a little, while the 89 seats have the bottom cushion stitched to the side supports at the top of the cushion. The only real knock to me is the suspension which I found to be acceptable corrected with the addition of 25mm Hill Engineering spacers available from Ricambi America (I know you already know this, just wanted to sound a little commercial). Anyway, if you find a good 89 348 don't hesitate to snap it up! I mean, how could you not love it??? BT Image Unavailable, Please Login
Personally i found the 2.5 to be a better drive as it delivers power right the way up the revs where as the 2.7 feels like youve got a power band at about 4500 revs IMO. Andy.
The Motronic 2.5 is good. The Motronic 2.7 shares some similar fuel maps. However, the Motronic 2.7 has more fuel maps (e.g. engine cold, engine hot, etc.). Here is a Motronic 2.5 partial throttle fuel map and a Motronic 2.7 partial throttle fuel map. They are very comparible. I would not hesitate to get a 1989 348, by the way. The 1989 348 has the all-metal timing belt cover compared to the cheap Italian black plastic cam belt cover on my 1994 348 (I've since retrofitted to all-metal, though). Later model 348's do have some very good updates, but they also lose the superior 1989 dual clutch. Check out the fuel map pics below (2.5M first, 2.7M second). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here are most of the known 348 factory changes: 1. 05/30/91 differential side seal—production improvement 2. 05/30/91 Bosch starter motor changed to Nippon—production improvement 3. 10/10/91 cam seal housing modification—reduced oil leakage 4. 10/10/91 double plate-clutch changed in favor of single-plate clutch—production improvement 5. 10/10/91 new alignment specs—improved handling 6. 10/10/91 improved mounting of front bonnet grill to address warpage 7. 10/10/91 front suspension shocks and springs—production improvement 8. 06/01/92 rear A-arm fix point height reduction—production improvement 9. 06/01/92 Delco Alternator changed to Nippon—production improvement 10. 08/18/92 door grills—improved strength 11. 08/24/92 oil sump tank ground strap—improved gauge operation 12. 11/03/92 front timing bearing—reduced noise 13. 08/18/93 harmonic balancer replacement—reduced weight - added 2hp 14. 08/20/93 clutch thrust bearing/slave—production improvement Other factory enhancements: the change in final drive ratio The 1994 348 Spiders have a 4.34 to 1 final drive ratio. The 1993 348 TS's have a final drive ratio of 3.53 to 1 (click here: http://maximum-cars.com/Cars/Car.php?carnumber=337 ). The 1992 & 1993 Ferrari 348 tb and ts Serie Speciale had their rear track widened by 50mm from 1578mm to 1628mm by adding 25mm of offset to each wheel, and their final drive was shortened from 26/27 on the earlier cars to 25/29 on the SS. A taller fifth gear was fitted (early cars having p/n 70000592), to maintain top speed with the new lower main gear installed (click here: http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/348versions.html ). The 1990 348 TB's have a final drive ratio of 3.56 to 1 (click here: http://www.*************/cars/564.html). the stainless steel fuel line change, the major change to the Spider one-can exhaust from the old 2-can muffler, rear subframe upgrade to part number 4628, the change from the Motronic 2.5 to Motronic 2.7 ECUs (at and above chassis #86406), the increase in redline to 7800 RPMs (Spider, SS, Challenge, Competizione), the battery location switch from the rear bonnet to beneath the front bonnet (1992), larger intake plenums (for GTS, GTB, Competizione), 50mm wider track via 25mm wheel offsets, exhaust cam pulley setting re-indexed (U.S. Challenge 348's and Euro GTB, GTS, and Spiders), and the front bonnet A/C fuse switch from blade to inline bullet. 1989 model Ferrari 348's did not have the mad mouse seat belts. Early 1989 models had an external radio antenna. 1992 models and up came with body colored side skirts and spoilers. SS models had a reverse curve front spoiler (and small lip), removed rear grill, kevlar seats, chrome prancing horse "cavallino" emblems front and rear, strengthened door panels, leather interior door panels, and a taller 5th gear. Challenge models also came with aluminum pedals, an alternate fuel pump, a lighter front bumper, roll cage mounts, carbon fiber brake cooling ducts, a bigger heat shield, rubberized tow hooks front and rear, exhaust timing advanced, and 18 inch speedline racing wheels (225/40 ZR 18 front and 265/40 ZR 18 rear). Competizione models came with carbon fiber bumpers, aluminum and carbon fiber "thin" front bonnet and rear decklid, carbon fiber undertray, F40 half-shafts, upgraded fuel mapping in the ECU chips, lexan rear window, 15 inch brakes, and a strengthened frame. Taken from here: http://webpages.charter.net/aircover/348/Ferrari348Enhancements.htm
My car, 86426, July 1990 Build has: * Aluminum timing belt covers * dual disc clutch Why do you suggest the dual disc is superior? It is vastly more expensive, and for 99.999% of us, I can't imagine we'll notice a difference. Interested in what might make it a "better" clutch. ?
Man, I gotta tell ya No Doubt. I am really getting to like you. You are a plethora of quality information. I hope your tireless research of things like this "2.5 Motronic" thread will finally drive home what many of us "in the know" Ferrari folk have been saying for quite some time. With your input, the anti-2.5 members may finally be silenced. Oh, and as a side note. Some of your research is helping Ferrari types without you even knowing it. I had a 2.5 Motronic "stumble" right at the "map load" changeover point. Your research diagnosed that! Bravo. Keep up the good work.
I should probably defer to racers with the dual disk clutch such as FBB, but it's my general impression that the dual clutch is superior to the single clutch for strength/grip/power-transfer/life-of-part. It's also my impression that Ferrari first introduced the dual clutch as a racing technology showcase in the 348...and later went to the less expensive, lighter-weight single clutch simply because for stock horsepower the dual clutch isn't required. ...But on 348's that get modified with more horsepower, I'd think that the dual clutch would be high up on a racer's wishlist. For non-racers such as myself (hey, it's a freakin' Spider, after all!), the single clutch is fine...preferable even (lighter weight, cheaper).
Thanks for the kind words, Michael. This sort of 348/Mondial T (and especially Motronic 2.5 and 2.7) research should have been done a decade before I acquired my 348. I simply couldn't let such a community oversight remain. Shame on those few who knew those secrets and kept them quiet. Power to the new 348 Brotherhood!
my 1989 348 has less than predictable characteristics at high speeds , but even at lower speeds (70-80)heading into turns is can get hairy , what can be done to improve it . Anyone have any ideas . Im open for suggestions . If its parts to be replaced ( aftermarket upgrade) who is best .what are the hill spacers for ?
I think I may have the earliest 348 on here (#82589). I have had it for 16 years and it has been brilliant. Over the years, the updates have been done.....and I don't have those worthless mouse belts!! As far as improving the handling..............I have Challenge wheels w/more rubber. Different alignment specs than stock, and some SS aero changes that really do work at high speed. The bigest help came from the wheel/tire change.
couldnt stand my mouse belts either. ripped them out , gently of course, so that the next owner someday may want to return them . i put a 4 pt harness in , what did you do ?
in 2.7 when you have a bad catalist temp sensor (and it's a frequent problem..) the motronic turn out the cykinder bank....not in 2.5....just a slow down light ;-)
Increase the rear track of the car. Many 348 owners add 15mm or 25mm spacers to the back end. We have both in stock: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=224431 http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=224439
I am not far behind on the production line at #82608. Based on my experience Luigi was paying pretty close attention during the initial builds of the 348. I am happy. BT
Ingen.... Just a friendly FYI.... consider doing some research on 6pt parachute harness set-up which you can change to by buying a "T" or "V" 6pt sub belt that is compatible with Sabelt. Your life may be extended by such an arrangement should you need your harness system.
I'm one of those who believe the dual disk was better. It is known that multi disk have higher torque handling ability, perhaps longer wear as disc wear is over more disks but then negated by their use primarily in racing. Ferrari did it right then the revisions were for cheapness and easy service. FNA guys had a hard time properly refitting such systems. Sorry to say but most FNA guys are barely able to plug in the SD tester get a code and replace a part. If you are a car guy and talk to most FNA techs they rarely understand how a car really works. So Ferrari I think dumbed down the 348 clutch. I self modified my dual disc and have raced it for 5 years and it still has not worn out yet.
