355F1 clutch overheat problem | FerrariChat

355F1 clutch overheat problem

Discussion in '348/355' started by RCV, Jun 15, 2009.

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  1. RCV

    RCV Karting

    Jan 13, 2007
    68
    SP, Brazil
    Hi everyone.

    I own a 1999 355F1 Berlinetta. Lately when I´m out with my car, the same problem is happening every time, the clutch is heating out of the blue, I ride for about 14 miles, and the clutch alarm goes on, nobody can fix that for me..

    Every time I´m parking the car, it doesn´t shift to reverse gear, it shifts to neutral and the clutch beep goes on again, so, the car is apparently heating with no reason.
    does anyone know or had this kind of problem? what should I do? btw: I only ride on weekends, never got into traffic jams or anything.

    Thanks!
     
  2. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    #2 348SStb, Jun 15, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
    Use reverse as little as possible.

    Also, DON'T use reverse when it's cold. If you park the car in the driveway, the garage, or wherever, do it in such a way so that you can pull forward upon cold start.
     
  3. RCV

    RCV Karting

    Jan 13, 2007
    68
    SP, Brazil
    I start the car but I wait about 5 minutes (until the thermostatic valve sound stops) to pull off, but I have to use reverse gear (I live in a building).. that could be it??
     
  4. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,548
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Does this apply to the 348 as well or just the 355?
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    It only applies to F1-equipped 355's, and only then when in reverse to back uphill.
     
  6. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    When in reverse the clutch on the F1 is slipping, it does this to allow a slow speed negotiation, much like you would when reversing in a normal manual.

    Have you had your clutch replaced recently?
     
  7. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,422
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    I'm curious to hear where you drive that car in Sao Paolo!

    Is there any clutch slipping in forward gears? I bought my car needed a clutch and it would slip if I got on the gas hard in pretty much any gear. As for reverse...I push my car out of the garage :D Fortunately clutches are cheap (if you have them resurfaced) and easy to replace. Flywheels however are quite pricey so you really don't want to overheat that...
     
  8. RCV

    RCV Karting

    Jan 13, 2007
    68
    SP, Brazil
    No, I didn´t replace my clutch recently but it is slipping.. Ferrari says my clutch has 58% of usage.. so.. it couldn´t be that. It´s very weird..

    Any more guesses??
     
  9. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    Have they inspected the clutch plate, i.e. removed it from the car? I would say your plate is worn out. It's easy and not time consuming to remove the plate and take a look. There is a wear sensor, this is the method they may have used, it could be wrong.

    My old 355F1 was saying 90% wear and when the removed the plate it was near new.
     
  10. RCV

    RCV Karting

    Jan 13, 2007
    68
    SP, Brazil
    Clutch plate.. man.. how can I translate that to portuguese to explain to the guys at Ferrari? Could you give me more details?
     
  11. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    The Clutch plate is the part that wears.....I'm no help when it comes to translation, I struggle enough with English....lol
     
  12. JSBMD

    JSBMD Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2007
    437
    The OC
    Full Name:
    John
    According to my tech, the SD-2 (&3) are able to tell you clutch wear, but that anyone can "reset" the clutch wear once the car is hooked up to the machine. This is obviously meant to be done when the disc is changed, but unfortunately can be done anytime. So, as the previous posters have stated, the only real way to know how much clutch life is left is to actually look at the disc. Could be adjustment is all that is needed, but if you remove the disc for inspection, are you really going to put it back in the car? I would just replace it, especially if it really is more than half-worn. My bet, though, is that someone reset your wear sensor when the clutch was, say, 35% worn, and that now it is worn out.

    Good luck with this,

    John
     
  13. Monteman

    Monteman Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 9, 2006
    2,323
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Full Name:
    Monte
    100% correct. Mine said 35% wear when the clutch was replaced.
     
  14. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2011
    16,211
    Adelaide, South Aust
    Full Name:
    Steve
    #14 Steve355F1, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    Guys, I'm resurrecting this old thread because I've just done a complete clutch replacement, had the flywheel machined, replaced all bearings, seals etc.
    I also replaced the clutch release bearing (with the Hill one) a few months ago, so virtually the entire clutch system is new.

    Yet despite all this I now have similar symptoms as described in the first post, except I have no problems engaging any gear (including reverse).

    Once the car fully warms up (about 10 minutes of normal driving) every time I stop at the lights etc. I get the clutch overheat beeping. It continues to beep until I drive off and go through about 15mph, when it stops and doesn't come on again until next time I stop the car.

    Gear changing is normal.

    It also beeps during any low speed manoeuvring (parking etc). Not initially, but once fully warmed up.

    Any suggestions? Thanks. :)
     
  15. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,429
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Tony
    may be a stupid question, but are you putting car in neutral when at a light..?
    to my understanding if youre sitting at light with car still in 1st.. there could still be friction on the clutch.. and start to heat up..? in addition to premature wear.
     
  16. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2011
    16,211
    Adelaide, South Aust
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Not a stupid question, Tony. I appreciate your input. :)
    I've owned this car for several years and have done more miles in it than any previous owner, so I know how to drive a 355F1 properly.
    This issue has only surfaced very recently.
    I'm open to any suggestions as to what might be going on.
    I'm guessing a sensor / computer issue of some kind?
     
  17. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    I'm just getting started down the path of learning the F1 system parameters and setup. Sounds like yours is not setup properly (yes, I know you probably already realize it).

    Did the person who replaced your clutch set it up with an SD?
     
  18. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2011
    16,211
    Adelaide, South Aust
    Full Name:
    Steve
    It was done by the local Ferrari dealer, so I certainly hope so! 😳🤔
     
  19. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
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    Dave Lelonek
    I'd suggest you take it back to them and ask them why you are having issues.

    Not for nothing - just got home with my car. Awesome drive and my 89% worn clutch operates flawlessly!!!
     
  20. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2011
    16,211
    Adelaide, South Aust
    Full Name:
    Steve
    As I'm about to head overseas I've informed them they have a month to work out what might be going on. I expect it to be fixed promptly when I get back.

    These are brilliant cars when working properly (my first several years of ownership were completely trouble free and an absolute pleasure).

    It is frustrating that professionals keep handing me back a car that is not right, but because I'm a nice guy I'll give the benefit of the doubt.
    For now.
     
  21. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,942
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    when they replaced did they use an sd to calibrate?

    If they did there is something wrong in the clutch itself.

    I would take it out again something is out of tollerance would be my assumption.

    You have driven your car lots so you know what it should be like.
     
  22. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,942
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    This sucks but they definately did something wrong Steve.
     
  23. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2011
    16,211
    Adelaide, South Aust
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Thanks Grant.
    I'm sure you're right.
    It's pretty poor but I'll give them one more opportunity to sort it out.
     
  24. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,942
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Not saying they are idiots just saying they made a mistake somewhere. If they are good they will figure out their mistake.
     
  25. JSBMD

    JSBMD Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2007
    437
    The OC
    Full Name:
    John
    2 things to look at:

    1) F1 pump motor--may be time for a 360 swap if you haven't done it yet, and maybe burned out, or tired, pump motor is causing these symptoms, or

    2) F1 accumulator--look at the pressure tracings from SD2/3, failure to maintain a plateau pressure indicates failed or failing accumulator.

    I had exactly this happen after a clutch change. Note that when the accumulator goes, the pump motor will soon fail, as it will have to work harder to keep the system going, since its' work can't be "stored" in the accumulator. When the electric pump motor is weak enough (or heats up enough) the car will start skipping to neutral upon shift requests. For me the clutch wasn't even worn, but contaminated with hydraulic oil. And the timing of clutch replacement with these shift system acting up was purely coincidental (but a huge red herring that resulted in the new clutch being removed and reinstalled a couple times).

    Since your clutch and hardware are new, I'd start with a pressure tracing of the system. Problem you may encounter is that a dealer may not offer to change just the accumulator (here in the States they won't do anything but factory swapped parts). My first indy tech couldn't solve it either--he had the car for a LONG time and was stumped. 2nd guy figured it out quickly, again showing that F1 system experience matters hugely.

    Best of luck, please share what you find. The more the community knows about these cars, the less frustration we suffer, the more we drive, and the less these cars suffer value-wise.
     

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