Does anyone have a graph of the torsional rigidity of cars built over the last few decades ? I've been told that the 355 is a wobbly old car along with the 348. I've read that as each model was introduced that the rigidity was improved but I have a bad memory so wondering if anyone has factual proof that the 355 is wobbly ?
Not wobbly but there are better cars. A 355 B is pretty good for a street car. Better than a 328 and a 348 but a 360 is a little better and a Scuderia is better still. It is what it is, either you like it or not. Why does some other car have really matter?
You are correct mate. Each model only gets better and better as expected. See these pics from the 360 floor pan improved for the 430 floor pan with extra torsional sections in place. I will dig around and see if I have the same pics for the 348/355. I don't remember if I do or don't as I have thousands of pics of everything Ferrari related. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
They are, of course, less stiff than many modern offerings, but many I have encountered who make such comments are mostly regurgitating something they've read or heard sans real world experience and probably couldn't really detect all that flex anyway. May be different in your case, but most I encounter are hardly track stars and really don't have much need to concern themselves with such things. Folks would enjoy their ROAD cars a lot more if they simply allowed themselves to become lost in the experience rather than consumed by the numbers. 20 year old cars are all about the feel, IMO. I will submit that my particular 348 TS (as set up with challenge springs) would be damn near unbearable for most people if it were any more stiff! I love it as is
Have the same with solid bushings. boy does the roof make noise so I just take it off. I would guess out of 1000 Ferrari owners maybe 1 would be able to take full advantage of a solid chassis. Lots can feel it.
348 structure got stiffened at least twice but I think 3 times during production. Being the first unit body they built it was a learning process. The prototypes had 328 style roof latching and during testing the roofs kept popping out so the chassis was stiffened and the top attaching method was redesigned. In 90 or 91 it was stiffened again and I think 93 and 94 was stiffened again.
Yikes I could see that, ooops there goes my roof again. Honey can you get out and pick it up. I bet it was a learning process. I was not aware of so many goes at it
Here's a mega list Car Body Torsional Rigidity - A Comprehensive List (Updated: Dec. 14, 2015) - YouWheel.com - Car News and Review Ferrari 355 10,000 (bending 7,100) Ferrari 360 Modena 23,000 (bending 10,100) Ferrari 360 Spider 13,800 Ferrari F430 27,600 Ferrari 458 33,120 Ferrari 458 Spider 23,184 (70% of the Coupe) Ferrari F50 34,600
If I remember correctly, Ferrari make a big think about the F355 being 30% stiffer than the 348 due to the way the frame components were attached to each other.
Bench racers use rigidity specs like they use 0-60 times. If my layman's understanding is correct, modern road car chasis are getting to the point where they can actually be too stiff. Isn't this why the 488 suspension builds in "warp" (my term not Ferrari's) to keep all 4 corners planted on the road surface when roll and yaw are encountered?
The only down side to very high stiffness in a road car is loss of ride quality. It makes the suspension guys work harder to isolate you from the minor stuff. A stiff chassis allows the suspension to work as designed and eliminates unknowns. But when you consider just in this conversation we have covered cars with a rating of well below 10,000 to 60,000 in torsional rigidity we have little chance of any of the road going Ferraris being considered too stiff by any yardstick.
Stiff road cars = broken spot welds and metal fractures Along with tons of other poop that goes bad fast.
To be fair we have seen plenty of that in flexy frames too. It is a matter of load distribution in the design. Lots of stuff happens with too stiff a suspension on the street including what you describe having nothing to do with chassis stiffness but with suspension stiffness. Something needs to give or everything needs to be really strong. The lesson I think is there is such a thing as being overall too stiff on the street and it produces a car that is unpleasant to drive or ride in.
Agreed ^^^^ Unfortunately I lived chassis / body structure thing for close to a 20 year span. It's all about tradeoff Funny I just had a flashback to my first chassis experience. Welding up Peugeot rally cars circa 1977. I was the only one who knew how to use one of those new MIG welders so I was nominated LOL
They wanted to weld every seam 3/4" on then a 3/4" gap between welds Solid welding caused too much heat buildup. We put the parts on a frame machine and pulled them apart to test. the 3/4 on off worked best This was done at Peugeot NA headquarters A 3 car converted gas station in Tenafly NJ. right down the road from Renault, fiat then ferrari headquarters. I was right in the middle of that auto maddness in NJ Then mercedes, bmw, VW, lotus, volvo headquarters 3 miles north.
There's also a nice big plate underneath that boxes in the channel where the oil/coolant/gearshift lines run. The 360 has a cosmetic plastic part there.
Our 930 cab flexes when pushed, but who cares? It will never be on the track and btw I kinda like the feel of chassis flex. An option is skinny tires and more slide
My 355 GTS is pretty floppy by modern standards. You can feel it through your butt, and there's scuttle shake too. I don't mind, it's part of the charm of a 20 year old car.
When you look at how the powertrain and rear suspension is mounted into the chassis in its cradle then it is hardly a surprise. It is all connected down below the engine, very little support above or any significant triangulation of the cradle above the engine into the chassis, quite shocking when you look at it in detail.
