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Old 02-15-2017, 04:34 AM
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prospective owner questions

Hi!

I have always wanted to own a mid engine fun car... I test drove some Mondials, a 328 and a 348 and I liked the handing and looks of the 348 a lot. However, I do not intend to buy one to take selfies with it but to drive and enjoy. I can pretty much go any moment and fly my single engine plane or drive me 88 Carrera without worrying about cost in terms of maintenance, repairs and depreciation, but would I be able to afford a 348?

how much more money would be (per year or per mile) the 348 compared with a '88 911?

I can pretty much find 911 parts everywhere, including at junk yards or online. But no store that I know has 348 parts available. Am I asking in the wrong places?

How much (and how hard to source) would be a fender, or a headlight, or a windshield?

what about wear items, such as a radiator with some hoses, a motor mount or an axle? Can some of these be cross referenced from other italian cars?

I am sure there are a lot of dudes who borrowed $25k to buy a cool looking car but got stuck with the first repair bill... trying to see where I am.

Cheers!
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:13 PM
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BMW maintenance, little league.
Porsche maintenance, big league
Ferrari maintenance, Major League.

Windshield is $3,000
Foglights close to $1,000
Radiator, $2,000 for the set of 2
Motor mount is $1,000 or more for that hard to find top one
Tune up is $10,000 every five years.

Learn to do somethings and you can save a lot, but if you rely on mechanics, it is Major League.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:18 PM
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You fly a single engine airplane "without worrying about cost in terms of maintenance, repairs and depreciation"? In other words, you own and pay for all of that without worry? If so, then a 348 is nothing. If not (not the airplane owner), then see Mitchell's post.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:42 PM
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So I'll do a different comparison as I have owned all 3 brands. I currently own 2 of them. When I was in my 20's I had an M3. The money I made was considered the average for a household income in my area (so comparing me with no dependents to the average household). I got a $1300 bill for a waterpump and and other things. It was tight for me. I had that car for 5 years and besides dumb "upgrades" I spend less than 5k in maintenance. I felt at the time it was an expensive car.

Then on to a 996... I had that for about 2 years. It was about as useful as an F355 in that it wasn't useful. I ended up not driving it much but that is a different story. A brake sensor going off ended up being $2100 for new rotors, pads, and a litany of other items.

The "purchase" price of the Ferrari is really not what you budget. You budget for maintenance. Before buying my car, I was told by a well respected guy here that has quite a few cars and probably more dollars what I should expect. He said have at least $15k dedicated to the car in cash. After a year or two you will know what you need per year. Most likely there will be a big inrush of fixes and then you will settle in.

I can only speak to F355. It should cost $5,000 per mile if you drive 1 mile a year. Or maybe, it will cost $.50 per mile if you drive 10,000 miles per year. It isn't so much the miles as is the time, the way you drive, the environment (rain, snow, cold, hot,etc.) as well as how it has been treated in the past.

I am assuming you don't do any maintenance. The retail cost of the parts to do an annual "fluid" change is about $350. Add labor. This really should be done every year. Not doing this can reduce the value of your car when you go to sell it (or to be able to sell it), let alone it is just a good thing to do to keep your car in good shape.

Every 3 years per Ferrari, 5 years per most enthusiasts and for sure no more than 7 years (assuming you drive the car), you need a Major. This is $9k plus tax and plus extra items that may need to be replaced that are not the standard belts, plugs and seals. Water pump, engine mounts, missing bolts, whatever...

So figure $700 a year (at best) for a qualified person to do your annual and $9k every 5 years. So that is $2,800 + $9,000 for 5 years. That assume you drive mostly moderately (not thrashing the car every second), the car has been well cared for and driven often in the past and you are doing something like 500-3000 miles a year.

This doesn't include wear items like brakes, tires, clutch, bulbs, etc.
This doesn't include breakage like glass, tires, or other parts prone to failure.

348 and 355 seem to be well sorted with the known issues having many options for longer term fixes and OEM equivalent parts. There are also multiple breakers and parts companies of which many advertise here.

The amount of knowledge on this board with all of the hints, tips and money saving options is much greater than I have seen on other boards for different cars like BMW and Porsche.

If you singularly own a plane and fly it and keep it for a long time (through re-certifications) then a 348 or 355 shouldn't keep you up at night.

If you can do some or most of your maintenance and fixes (maybe not the major but at least the annuals), you will save probably 60% as most of cost is labor.

If you plan to drive it and not leave it sit for 6 months a year the car should maintain well and you will be fine with OEM replacement parts for some items where logo parts are unobtainable or cost a bunch.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:47 PM
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if youre worried about the finding parts.. there are plenty of resources..

no question.. there are harder parts/pieces to find.. sometimes

but for your usual things.. new/used.. theirs plenty of supply..

here are some suppliers.. who amongst will have almost anything youd need for a 348.. in terms of maintenance. as for aftermarket parts there is a whole slew of other vendors..

here is a list of most common sources for parts/maintenance etc..

Ricambi America
FerrParts
Exotic Auto recycling
Hill Engineering
Eurospares
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:16 PM
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Just to give some credo to my statements. These are the cars I have owned or still own.

BMW: E30 M3, E36 M3, 530XiT
Porsche: 1980 SC, 1984 Carrera, 996 GT3, and a 997
Ferrari: 308GT4, 328, 348, 355 Berlinetta, 355 spider
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:41 PM
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Mitch, I respectfully disagree about BMW being minor league - the repair bills on some of my friends' BMW's are beyond ridiculous.
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AceMaster View Post
Mitch, I respectfully disagree about BMW being minor league - the repair bills on some of my friends' BMW's are beyond ridiculous.
It can get quite high when unibodies and subframes start shredding themselves, or rod bearings or VANOS units start going.
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:58 PM
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Well, I must say my 2008 BMW 335xi (ordered new) has had the following problems:

- A bunch of blow bulbs - most under warranty, a few out of warranty and the dealer covered them gratis

- Brakes & Tires - normal wear items

- a high pressure fuel pump - recall and covered

- failed water pump ($2000 - out of warranty)

- 2nd failed water pump - many miles later - parts covered by prior repair warranty - only paid labor

- Failed spark plug - fixed myself

- Washer fluid level sensor - still have not fixed...

The car has 130K miles, it's now just my winter car. It's like the energizer bunny - it keeps going and going and going...

Most reliable car I have ever owned. So, aside from wear items, I'm about $3K out of pocket since I bought it new. Darn good if you ask me.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by itsablurr View Post
It can get quite high when unibodies and subframes start shredding themselves, or rod bearings or VANOS units start going.
The newer BMWs are getting ridiculous, especially with those turbo engines. My experience with the E36 series were quite good. The E30 is a money pit but it is a race car.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:55 PM
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thanks

thanks for the input!

I do my own maintenance on cars, bikes and planes. But none of those is a highly expensive item. On the plane, which is by far the most expensive, I budget about $80/hour all inclusive costs, which includes the $35/hour fuel allowance. So flying for about 100hrs per year usually sets me back up to $4000 not including fuels. I made this average over an ownership of 2 airplanes over 5 years. There was always a rush of investment after purchasing that is not factored in. (btw, if anybody is here in SoCal and wants to fly I would happily fly with you and teach you some aviation and then, hopefully, get the same treatment with your Ferrari - just PM me)

So I am by no means a rich person as $4000/year for a hobby is something most people would afford.

I am asking these questions because I am expecting a sudden devaluation of Ferraris once the next economic recession hits so I want to be prepared to pick one up when the time is right.

Now how is 348 operating cost compared to the first generation NSX? Anybody had one of those? Would that be a "big league" item that gets you 90% of the driving sensation of the 348?

Because I have bunch of bikes and the 911 and the plane I guess I will be using the 348 for no more than 3000 miles / year, if that, and go to track no more than once per year.

Thanks again!
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade View Post
You fly a single engine airplane "without worrying about cost in terms of maintenance, repairs and depreciation"? In other words, you own and pay for all of that without worry? If so, then a 348 is nothing. If not (not the airplane owner), then see Mitchell's post.
+1
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:17 PM
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BMWs - I have had -
E36 M3 (highly modified)
E60 535i
F10 550xi
F82 M4

My BMW dealer charges $192.50 an hour for labor. The Ferrari dealer charges $165 and discounts the hours in a "package" for a major service. So.... there's that.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:24 PM
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thanks for the input!

flying single engine complex airplane is about $55/hour all inclusive rate (insurance, parts, repairs, parking, inspections). add fuel around $35 and I'm at $80. which I share with other passengers when going cross country. So flying around 100 hours per year with friends costs me no more than $5000. which is something an ordinary guy could afford as a hobby.

now what I see is that most of these 30+ year old porsche 911s (including mine) have 100 to 200k miles on the odo. that's a good 5000 miles/year or more in average. If I drive around LA, I can usually spot 2-3 classic 911s per day in traffic.

however, most ferrari cars I checked show 20-30k miles, no more than 50k... that's 1000 miles/year average.

what's the catch? if ownership cost is not prohibitively expensive and cars are cool, why are they merely garage queens?

I'm looking to buy a 348 to drive and enjoy... do they break a lot when being used in daily routine? are they so impractical? is there a lot of stress for the owner to leave it parked at the supermarket?

Another option I'm considering is buying a NSX... any thoughts on that one? Can i get 90% of ferrari excitement with maybe 50% costs?


one last thing to add: if any ferrari owner is in LA area and would like to come with me and enjoy some flights and then maybe do same thing with his ferrari I'm interested. I fly usually at least once per week. I can also teach a bit about aviation in exchange for some ferrari inshights.

cheers!

Last edited by bavareze; 02-15-2017 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavareze View Post
I posted something earlier today on this thread and it said "to be approved by moderator".

did I do something wrong? I can't see it up
First posts need to be approved. Since your second showed up, I'm guessing you are now approved
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:47 PM
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The original NSXs are great. It's like a honda prelude on steroids. You can drive it like a honda and expect similar maintenance (very little). It however is not the same as a ferrari and a 355 as an example would be similarly priced to a quality NSX but you will get more people chatting you up with a Ferrari etc. It isn't an exclusive club by design and anyone can join it's just having a Ferrari is harder than an NSX and if you just want want a cool car the NSX is that and low maintenance which seems to be a worry for you. I feel that owning a ferrari is also about the experience and friendships with other people in the same boat as you. I don't think you will find that with the NSX.

So it depends on what you want.

Also, the NSX sounds nothing like a ferrari with a capristo!
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:12 AM
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Since you mentioned the NSX I'll tell you my take on it. When I graduated college and got my first real job I started saving up to buy either an NSX, 911 or a Z06. At the time my daily driver was an Integra. When I drove the NSX for the first time it felt like I was driving my Integra but just a tad faster, there was literally nothing exciting besides the look and better handling. Granted with an exhaust some can sound decent but they're nowhere near a Ferrari exhaust.

I'm in the LA area and you're more than welcome to come see my 355 and I'll give you a ride too. Mine has a full exhaust set up so once you hear it I'll guarantee you won't look at anything else but a Ferrari.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:36 AM
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Ferraris are amazing cars... Buy one, if you don't like it...you can always sell it. Yolo
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:50 AM
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It can get quite high when unibodies and subframes start shredding themselves, or rod bearings or VANOS units start going.
That's only the tip of the iceberg
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:01 AM
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Mitch, I respectfully disagree about BMW being minor league - the repair bills on some of my friends' BMW's are beyond ridiculous.
+1, I had an E30 M3 and that thing just ate money and was not near as much fun as either the NSX or the F355 that replaced it.
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