A little under priced or right on -348 Challenge

This is not a 348 Factory Challenge car. It is MY 1990 348. Flip at your own risk.

 

Factory Challenge cars were model year 1994. There were approx. 32 TB and about 13 TS. The serial numbers ranged from 97869 to 98906.

While this car may have been used in the Challenge Series and may have even had some factory bits added to make it compliant with the Challenge Series, it is not one of those 32 TB or 13 TS cars. Those are the cars that pull big $. The asking price on this one, IMHO, is all the money.

 

It recently hammered at Bonhams Amelia for $44k, with premium

Bonhams : 1990 Ferrari 348 TS ChallengeVIN. ZFFFG36AXL0086947Engine no. 23930

Seemed like well bought at $44k, despite needing a major. The Challenge parts that come with the car are fairly rare and have some real value.

 

It is not a "factory" challenge car so they indeed got that wrong.

It is a 348 TS that had the required additional kit installed and then raced in the North American Ferrari Challenge series. All of the cars that raced in the series were identical with parts installed and specifications. Some of the cars had part (but not all) of the features installed at the factory while other cars had this done at local dealers.

Outstanding history. A little over 125 raced in this series worldwide so it is unique and has a nice pedigree.

It underwhelmed at auction (Mecum) for a much lower price than currently advertised. It then sold much lower at another auction a couple months later. So this car has been flipped multiple times this year.

Regardless, it should find a home in a collection with other F-cars and be enjoyable to take to the events and track with plenty of pride. The livery should be brought back to how it authentically ran in the series. It is missing much of its graphics...

Buy what you like. Enjoy the time driving (which is guaranteed) rather than thoughts of income (which is not guaranteed).

Robb

 

^^^What Robb said.

They're incredible track cars.

 

Just like any market, the guys that do their homework and have superior knowledge are the ones that tend to come out ahead and actually make money buying and flipping these cars. This car is a well known car and most educated buyers are going to know what this car sold for at auction, so the very fact that you are asking on this forum whether this would be a good flip and do not realize that the car is currently being flipped tells me you should probably just buy the car because you like it and want to be an end user and not see the car as profit potential. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against flipping a car, but to be successful takes more effort than just scanning the Internet looking for good deals. I am not trying to be derogatory to the original poster, just trying to make a point that their are many people that have been doing this for many years and would know the story on this car instantly once they saw the first picture. If you didn't realize this car sold at auction a few months prior, you suddenly become shark bait for the Sharks that are out there looking for an easy meal / sale !!!

 

I'll trade a 97 spider in yellow for it with 13k miles or any other challenge car for that matter.

 

As someone who has considerable experience owning/tracking these cars (#94285, a 1993 tb SS "converted" car, and #98791, a real 1994 "Factory Challenge" tb), I fully agree with Robb.
A few additional observations based on my experience, FWIW: (1) as noted, the "Factory Challenge" cars had some of their race equipment installed by the dealer too, but are invariably worth considerably more than the earlier "converted" examples- ideally, you want a "Factory" car with Challenge Series race history; (2) while it's nice that this car (allegedly) includes the OMP 348 CH seats, cage, etc., you'd want to ensure that they're genuine, as the real stuff is HARD to find and non-original substitutes detract from originality and value, and note that reinstalling the cage is a bigger chore than you might imagine; and (3) at the current asking price this still could be a good deal (you'd expect to pay a LOT more for a really nice "Factory" car- if you can find one), that assumes that the car doesn't need an engine and/or transaxle rebuild, in which case you'd be upside down fast.
My current one (the "Factory" car mentioned above) has been great- easy to own/maintain/track with minimal support, and since it originally had a title (even though the MSO is branded "CHALLENGE") I have a FL title and tag for it and drive it to/from the track- it's hot and noisy, but doable. I'm almost 65 and getting too old for this "hair shirt" experience so I'll probably sell it in the not too distant future, but it's at Tim Stanford's shop in Ft. Lauderdale as I write this for a major service, since that's due regardless.
These are great cars to own IF you get a good one- my previous 348CH was fun, but nowhere near as nice as this one, which is somehow prettier (better cosmetic condition and a cooler color scheme) and more . . . "of a piece", if you know what I mean.

 

+348

Robb

 

So these Factory Challenge cars are different than the 348 GT Michelotto Competizione?

Which is, of course, different then the 348 GT Competizione.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Quite. The GT Competiziones have the later F119 engine, carbon kevlar front and rear bumpers, carbon kevlar doors, euro F40 racing seats, polycarbonate rear window, and some other misc carbon kevlar trim bits that varied from car to car, and GTC XX/50 steering wheel, and I'm sure a few other minute differences. Berlinetta only, built by Ferrari. Many of the features came out of the Francorchamps TB/F racing development car.

The Michelotto cars were the "GT Competizione" cars, GTC-LM and CSAI-GT designations built by Michelotto to compete in Le Mans GT2 and Supercar GT series. 360hp F119 with some special upgrades to the cam timing system, larger cams, exhaust, lexan sliding windows, carbon kevlar underbody work, mousehair dash on a stripped interior, etc... 11 CSAI-GT cars built, with 9 unfortunately picked up by private collectors, and 2 seeing race duty. Jolly Club was one of the 2, and was met with title wins in 93/94 alongside their F40LM. 2 GTC-LMs were campaigned for 94 by Repsol and Ferrari Club Italia.

Ferrari 308, 328, 348: The Complete Story by Robert Fosket has some great information on the Michelotto race cars. In comparison, the 348 Factory Challenge cars are standard 348s with a couple minor tweaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYsQWOoySY8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owF6HsLqQUA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8cSon_dCkY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1J0xRqjpQs

 

Yep. Almost all of the Challenge kit was safety gear. I went through the Challenge parts pages on Ricambi America's site and the only performance bits I recall are different suspension bushes, although I think there are a couple of other things as well. For example, exhausts, at least for the earlier cars which originally ran dual can systems.

Actually, I recall those cars as being pretty loud so it makes me wonder how many of the approved Challenge mufflers "accidentally" lost their guts on the floor of the dealership service department.

That's what was so cool about the original Challenge cars-- they really were basically road cars being raced instead of purpose built race cars.

 

And remember Euro Challenge cars were different than the US Challenge cars, late Euro cars getting F119H engine (tall plenums).

 

That was/is my understanding based on what I've read.

But which cars is Keith (kdf398) referring to in post # 4? Only "45" Challenge cars from the Factory and the rest were dealer modded cars?

"Factory Challenge cars were model year 1994. There were approx. 32 TB and about 13 TS. The serial numbers ranged from 97869 to 98906."

"While this car may have been used in the Challenge Series and may have even had some factory bits added to make it compliant with the Challenge Series, it is not one of those 32 TB or 13 TS cars. Those are the cars that pull big $. The asking price on this one, IMHO, is all the money."​

 

Okay, never mind...

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/challenge-gt-cars/228927-348-factory-challenge-car-history.html

 

The factory built cars came with the bushings, roll cage mounts pre-welded, etc. And they were later spec cars. Otherwise, they're standard 348s.

Like the SS, value all comes down to production numbers-- sure, I could turn a standard 348 into a Challenge car and probably do a better job than the factory did, but it wouldn't be a Maranello built car so it wouldn't have the same value in the marketplace.

In this case I see little wrong with it though-- the 348 is undervalued so the prices on those limited production cars that are very similar to our standard cars reflect quite well on overall values.

 

I previously owned a 348tb Challenge. It was #24 of the 32 tb's. I didn't have the bushings from the factory. It did have aluminum pedals, suede steering wheel, 348 Challenge script on rear decklid, roll cage mounting points and race harness eyebolt mounting points welded in by Ferrari. Also there were some custom touches done by the factory to interior trim to accommodate the mounting points.

The bushings were part of the Challenge kit, which was an option delete for the Challenge cars, and would've been installed by the dealer at a buyer's request or later by the buyers themselves.

 

Your smarter than that Brian thats why you asked.

Are you all healed up now and all is good I hope.

 

It is always and always the same discussion.

In Europe the series started in 93 with a kit from the dealer, next year Ferrari built the 348 Challenge cars for the US.

So, and believe it or not, the value of a 93 car is much higher then the 94 cars.

See also the two cars they where sold in Essen in April on the big vintage car Show (see Pictures). Both cars where Prices over 140.000 EUR, so I think sells Price was around 130.000 EUR.

The car here is really, really a bargain, the Bonhams result was a joke, someone gets a big deal...
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Both are sold in Essen verry quick
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

There was no 348 Challenge Series in the US until the following year, and here the '94 "Factory" cars are much more valuable than an earlier car.

 

What are they selling for?