355 Spider top emergency button does not work

Just checking. Key on and hand brake engaged? Fuses on pump good (under pump cover)?

 

Just an FYI, the emergency switch skips the usual sequence and will operate the pump in the "up" or "down" direction regardless of all conditions including E-brake, windows and seat location.

I wonder if the switch is bad. It is nothing more than a connection direct from the power supply to the pump motor. Not much in between.

Did you check the ground?

 

Spider roof diagram here, Mitchell (from the WSM)...

Spider Roof Wiring Diagram

I've incorporated the bypass switches (shown on a separate page in the WSM) into one diagram (although I haven't actually confirmed there are 3 switches in that bypass circuit.... I've never operated the roof on mine, either )

 

I would check power and ground at the pump while using the emergency switch, and at the switch first.

 

The emergency switches just ground two relays (one for up and one for down). There is a large 30 amp fuse that supplies power to the relays and motor. You should hear one of the relays click when you depress the emergency up or down button. They provide power and ground to the motor and just reverse the polarity depending on which button you are depressing.
There should be 12v at the fuse at all times.

 

I assume if no relay clicking in either the up or down direction, it's a power or earthing problem rather than a double relay problem. If no click on the down relay only, perhaps you could swap the relays (they seem to have the same part number).

That diagram is a little confusing. It looks like the relay solenoid power bypasses both fuses.

 

In normal mode, the ECU provides the grounds for the closing/opening relay solenoids (via "A01" and "A02"). During emergency mode, the ground for the relay solenoids is on the other side/s of the emergency (bypass) switches (perhaps close to the bypass switches)... i.e. shown just above the buzzer in the diagram. According to the diagram, there is a single ground in bypass mode (the switches determine which relay gets the ground)

Both +15 and +30 are power sources (I'd say one is a 15 amp supply, the other a 30amp supply)

You didn't specify if both relays weren't clicking in bypass mode. If they aren't, it sounds like a power problem or an earth problem (It would be unlikely that you would have a motor and two relay failures). Can you pull out one of the relays and check for 12V on the relay socket? (EDIT: I don't know if the power goes through the ignition. You may have to turn the key)

 

If there is no ground, any circuit that is powered may show 12V at to ground terminal because there is no current flow. You know, Ohm's law. Some time better written as delta (V) = I x R where delta(V) is the voltage drop across the resistor. No current, I=0, delta(V) = 0, so 12V on one side gives 12V on the other.

 

P.S. two of the relay pins should have power. One power source is for the solenoid and one power source is for the relay contacts (which power the motor).

 

You can try interchanging the relays to see if anything happens. However, it may be that one relay is stopping the other from working (by not returning to the relaxed state). You need one relay to be relaxed to get an earth for the motor.

 

Here are the current paths for closing during bypass operation...

Bypass closing circuit

Magenta = relay solenoid current flow. Green = motor current flow.

Note that the motor current flow goes through both relays (one energised, one relaxed)

 

Maybe these guys or a similar company can fix it?

https://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/35-ferrari

 

Check the impedance of the motor winding.

 

I know you know this but you will find another motor

In canada princess auto sells them.

Post a pic with specs if you can not find one I am sure I can.

Likely take apart and fix motor pump is likely good.

 

If "only" the motor has gone... on Ebay UK you can find a reconditioned pump motor for the F355 Spider. It seems to be company that is specialized on roof parts.

Ferrari F355 Spider Hydraulic Roof Pump Motor Unit Only 1995-1999 | eBay

Good luck.

 

I've got the Whole Complete Roof Frame and Controls and Hydraulic system. I've pulled it folding a 1996 F355 and have no need of these items. PM for more detail

Ciao!
Roger

 

Yeah but it says they won't ship to the states. Funny it's on ebay he shouldn't care where it goes.

 

I'm trying to figure out the switch arrangement in the diagram. It shows the up/down switches (in red), but also an additional switch to earth (ground). The Owner's Manual says that the park brake must be set for the override system to work. Is the handbrake switch the additional switch? The park brake switch is shown elsewhere in the diagram, but the diagram is a composite of two diagrams in the WSM, so may still be the same switch.

The Owner's Manual also says the ignition has to be on, even during override, so, I presume, either (or both) the +15/+30 power sources are via the ignition.

Thanks,
Cheers

 

Parking brake must be engaged, according to the owner's manual, for the emergency button to work.

 

Mitch, where does say that the ECU disables the function of the emergency switches? Assuming the emergency switches and ECU internal up/down switches are the normally open type, the two circuits shouldn't affect each other.


The diagram in post 4 is a compilation of two diagrams from the WSM. The lower switch in the red-coloured bypass circuit was not identified in the WSM, but when I compiled the diagram, I speculated that the lower switch in the red-coloured circuit was the handbrake switch as the manual says the handbrake switch affects the bypass circuit. Since I can't confirm that the lower switch is the park brake switch (or poles on the park brake switch, I didn't draw wires from the red circuit to the other park brake switch"S8" shown on the left hand side of the diagram.

Compiled roof diagram

Are you saying that you physically checked your emergency switches and each have 6 wires attached, or 3 wires each or 6 poles or 3 poles or ??? And do the switches have 3 different types of contacts? (momentary, normally closed and normally open). Could you post a photo of these switches? (my car is in the shop at the moment). Are there any markings on the switches (manufacturer part numbers, pin numbers, etc)?

Unfortunately, if some of the emergency switch contacts are normally closed, then figuring out which wires are for what will be difficult.

Do you have access to the park brake switch?