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  #41  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaivball View Post
I don't have any fresh suggestions but I can commiserate because I made the same mistake 11 years ago when I bought my 348.

I didn't know if Fchat and the valuable information here. I took it to an exotic car repair shop and they had the car for 2.5 months. But to make matters worth, the car didn't run right afterwards. They replaced cat ecu, coils, etc etc. bill was over $20k and car still didn't run right.

I then took it to Brian Crall, the resident expert Ferrari mechanic. He had to perform another engine out service and correct the mistakes (the worst was the incorrectly installed belt tensioner that was actually digging into the belt and would ultimately have let to breakage and complete engine failure).

Attempted to get my money back or portions refunded but no dice. That place is now out of business.

Expensive lesson. But now I know.


Kai


The mechanic working on mine found that the belt tensioner was put on backward and eating into the belt. The belt was eaten up pretty bad.
The mechanic has done a good job of showing me everything he does( I make weekly visits) but he stops any further work when he runs into a part that needs replaced outside of the normal 30k parts. Then it sits for 10 days until the guy who orders parts gets around to placing the order.

We'll see what happens. I'll just grin and bear it. I haven't been rude in anyway to the mechanic. Maybe disappointed but that's it. Though I did send an email to the owner after the last visit voicing my concerns.




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  #42  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by vdettore View Post
The mechanic working on mine found that the belt tensioner was put on backward and eating into the belt. The belt was eaten up pretty bad.
The mechanic has done a good job of showing me everything he does( I make weekly visits) but he stops any further work when he runs into a part that needs replaced outside of the normal 30k parts. Then it sits for 10 days until the guy who orders parts gets around to placing the order.

We'll see what happens. I'll just grin and bear it. I haven't been rude in anyway to the mechanic. Maybe disappointed but that's it. Though I did send an email to the owner after the last visit voicing my concerns.




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Sounds like my old bad mechanic worked on your car as well installing the belt tensioner backwards...



Kai
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  #43  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:54 PM
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I had a similar experience when I bought my 355. I drove it from Florida to a Pennsylvania. The major had been done two years prior. The dealership I bought it from recommended taking it to an independent garage, as "that's where all the best mechanics end up". I did that and three months later got the car back with a $14,000 bill!! The shop was very good at communicating what they were finding, with the request for approval to go ahead and make the repairs each time. This sounds very appropriate, but after awhile, I felt like they were just feeling out my credit limits. The car would be ready for delivery, then after a test drive, this sensor or that module would be found to be bad. After they had the car for two months, they found a bad spark plug! I was a little incensed that they were finding something as basic as a bad spark plug so late in the game. Their answer was that modern cars don't need routine replacement of plugs. $1000 later for plugs and wires and another month wait for them to arrive! Even though there was a lot of icy/snow conditions that winter, I finally got the car out of there as soon as I could. They often do have you by the balls! My take was that I would never go back there again and have told others of my experience there. Since then, I have had the car serviced at a Ferrari dealership and at another independent garage. I had my major done about a month ago. It took all of one week!
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  #44  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:33 AM
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Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and your own personal experiences. This has allowed me to rethink my expectations of the service and the shop at this point. So I'll continue to make my weekly visits, stay on good terms with the mechanic. If anything for my own sanity.
I bought the Ferrari because I've always wanted since I was a kid, so I'll learn from this and look forward to finally getting it back - hopefully sooner than later.

Thank God I have a boat I can go cruise around in. Lol.


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  #45  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by vdettore View Post
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and your own personal experiences. This has allowed me to rethink my expectations of the service and the shop at this point. So I'll continue to make my weekly visits, stay on good terms with the mechanic. If anything for my own sanity.
I bought the Ferrari because I've always wanted since I was a kid, so I'll learn from this and look forward to finally getting it back - hopefully sooner than later.

Thank God I have a boat I can go cruise around in. Lol.


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That's the right attitude to have.

Also what I have learned is that owning a Ferrari makes boating an "inexpensive" hobby. While Boaters invented what BOAT stood for (Break Out Another Thousand)...Ferrari owners have no such limit.
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  #46  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:14 PM
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Thank God I have a boat I can go cruise around in. Lol.
I have never, ever, heard any boat owner utter this.

I have a few relatively expensive hobbies, but I thank my lucky stars that I've kept myself away from boats and planes, and my wife away from horses (so far).
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  #47  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:48 PM
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I remember helping my great uncle Leo (big boater guy) get his boat ready for winter storage. After about ten trips with a wheelbarrow, in his old New York Italian voice, he yells:

"This is boating.....carrying crap back and forth to the car!" I sure miss those relatives.
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  #48  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:50 PM
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Lol.. break out bust out another thousand.

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  #49  
Old 07-17-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave rocks View Post
Hmmm....call me crazy - when I need parts I typically can source and have them in hand in 24-48 hours.

We are not talking about restoring a Ferrari from the 50's here....

Sound like the shop is working on what they feel are other priorities. Pay them a visit, have a detailed discussion about what they feel the delay is caused by. If it's unreasonable or it smells bad, pull the car and get it to someone else.
Dave knows that I have gone through alot of this type of "shenanigans" with my 1999 355 F1. I found a reputable service center in Floriday and very happy with them. I would pull it out once you find that reputable dealer or authorized Ferrari service center. You'll feel much better about the car and yourself.

Boaf
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  #50  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:53 AM
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Sorry I noticed this thread as I still keep the ears tuned for a 348.

The relationship I have with my mechanic.. he understands that I "get it". He has a good idea what I'm looking for with a repair and to what extent a repair should be pushed.
"It's OK Karl. I'll take care of that when I get it home. Don't worry I'll take care of it."

His team can do the big stuff and I can take care of the more easy to access parts. I get that the engine is out and you have the best access to everything and you want it good as new when you get it back, but what parts are they finding. It's to to have a "While You're At It" philosophy, but what I found with my 928 is you can end up replacing things that could probably be deferred and spread out the $$$ and give you time with the car.

Maybe ask them to button up the big stuff and take care of the smaller issues later? I can't imagine anything more than belts, tensioners, valve cover gasket and seals.. then reinstall and repair in time with the subframe on car.

Last edited by vrsurgeon; 07-17-2017 at 10:00 AM.
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  #51  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BucksTifoso View Post
I had a similar experience when I bought my 355. I drove it from Florida to a Pennsylvania. The major had been done two years prior. The dealership I bought it from recommended taking it to an independent garage, as "that's where all the best mechanics end up". I did that and three months later got the car back with a $14,000 bill!! The shop was very good at communicating what they were finding, with the request for approval to go ahead and make the repairs each time. This sounds very appropriate, but after awhile, I felt like they were just feeling out my credit limits. The car would be ready for delivery, then after a test drive, this sensor or that module would be found to be bad. After they had the car for two months, they found a bad spark plug! I was a little incensed that they were finding something as basic as a bad spark plug so late in the game. Their answer was that modern cars don't need routine replacement of plugs. $1000 later for plugs and wires and another month wait for them to arrive! Even though there was a lot of icy/snow conditions that winter, I finally got the car out of there as soon as I could. They often do have you by the balls! My take was that I would never go back there again and have told others of my experience there. Since then, I have had the car serviced at a Ferrari dealership and at another independent garage. I had my major done about a month ago. It took all of one week!

Hi Bucks,

I have a 1999 355 F1 that I bought in Florida, and I live in PA so found it interesting we sort of have the same scenario. Can you send me a Private Message so I make sure to avoid the garage you went to? I have a recommendation from a member, whom I trust here on this forum.

Boaf
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  #52  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:15 AM
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Simple solution is to get a list of parts the guy still needs. YOU GET THEM. Takes a day. Cal Daniel at Ricambi, give him your shopping list and your AMEX and let him get everything your mechanic needs.

Now the excuses are gone, and you can have a realistic discussion about your expectations and when YOU expect to come and pick up the car.

At that point, daily phone calls, to determine if any additional parts are required to get the job finished will make you just a big enough pain in the ass to get it done, without them continuing to push the car into a corner for a week.

If you get stumped looking for a part, post here, it'll get found by a smart fchatter in about 30 minutes.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:47 AM
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Simple solution is to get a list of parts the guy still needs. YOU GET THEM. Takes a day. Cal Daniel at Ricambi, give him your shopping list and your AMEX and let him get everything your mechanic needs.

Now the excuses are gone, and you can have a realistic discussion about your expectations and when YOU expect to come and pick up the car.

At that point, daily phone calls, to determine if any additional parts are required to get the job finished will make you just a big enough pain in the ass to get it done, without them continuing to push the car into a corner for a week.

If you get stumped looking for a part, post here, it'll get found by a smart fchatter in about 30 minutes.
Repair shops don't want to use parts you supply and typically void all warranties when doing so. Dave - I know you already know this. And, the OP has stated that the shop does not have a complete list.
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  #54  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:16 AM
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Repair shops don't want to use parts you supply and typically void all warranties when doing so. Dave - I know you already know this. And, the OP has stated that the shop does not have a complete list.
Well then he needs to park his ass there and get them to make a complete list. Or he needs to bring some cartons, a good mechanic, and a flatbed to the shop and haul it out of there. His lack of assertiveness is probably the reason the car is still sitting. People suck, and they'll take advantage any chance they get in this kind of situation. Maybe the shop is in over its head. Who knows, but sitting with them and getting a complete list of what's left to do and what's needed to do it will go a long way towards getting the job done.

On the other hand, would you call Algar a typical shop? I supplied them with many, actually most of the parts for the repairs to my Dino. They found it easier to let me source them. Including all of the parts needed to rebuild the engine and transmission. Pistons, bearings, carb parts, etc. On the other hand, when they worked on the 360, I let them buy the parts as most of the work was warranty related.

I have had multiple shops accept parts that I supplied over the years.

Last month the shop that works on my Mercedes took the box full of transmission parts (filters, gaskets, fluids) and was happy to use them. they're replace my brakes and calipers next month and only using parts I supply.

I think the notion that shops won't accept parts from reputable suppliers is bogus. The reason that some don't want to take them is the obscene markup they make on parts. I had quite a discussion with a shop that charged my kid $400 for a $130 A/C line.

D
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave rocks View Post
Repair shops don't want to use parts you supply and typically void all warranties when doing so. Dave - I know you already know this. And, the OP has stated that the shop does not have a complete list.
I bought the Ricambi engine out service kit and gave it to my mechanic and he was very glad to use it.
He also installed the water pump I bought, the tires, the exhaust, and the starter.

I think it depends on the shop.

Kai
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:47 AM
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Well then he needs to park his ass there and get them to make a complete list. Or he needs to bring some cartons, a good mechanic, and a flatbed to the shop and haul it out of there. His lack of assertiveness is probably the reason the car is still sitting. People suck, and they'll take advantage any chance they get in this kind of situation. Maybe the shop is in over its head. Who knows, but sitting with them and getting a complete list of what's left to do and what's needed to do it will go a long way towards getting the job done.

On the other hand, would you call Algar a typical shop? I supplied them with many, actually most of the parts for the repairs to my Dino. They found it easier to let me source them. Including all of the parts needed to rebuild the engine and transmission. Pistons, bearings, carb parts, etc. On the other hand, when they worked on the 360, I let them buy the parts as most of the work was warranty related.

I have had multiple shops accept parts that I supplied over the years.

Last month the shop that works on my Mercedes took the box full of transmission parts (filters, gaskets, fluids) and was happy to use them. they're replace my brakes and calipers next month and only using parts I supply.

I think the notion that shops won't accept parts from reputable suppliers is bogus. The reason that some don't want to take them is the obscene markup they make on parts. I had quite a discussion with a shop that charged my kid $400 for a $130 A/C line.

D
I don't have the time to search and find the posts of Brian Crall on this subject but I can tell you from memory, he does not like (or possibly does not allow) parts supplied by the customer and most other shops agree. That does not mean they don't make exceptions but I know they don't like it. Tony D (ex-Algar) did use a 458 oil filter I supplied when doing my buddies car only because we are friends and I had bought it before knowing we would take the car to him. But, I did not bring my own oil as I can use it on other cars.
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  #57  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave rocks View Post
I don't have the time to search and find the posts of Brian Crall on this subject but I can tell you from memory, he does not like (or possibly does not allow) parts supplied by the customer and most other shops agree. That does not mean they don't make exceptions but I know they don't like it. Tony D (ex-Algar) did use a 458 oil filter I supplied when doing my buddies car only because we are friends and I had bought it before knowing we would take the car to him. But, I did not bring my own oil as I can use it on other cars.
I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll leave you with this.

I've had a Porsche Dealer take and use my parts. I've had a BMW dealer do the same. And a Ferrari Dealer. I've had a Brit car specialist use parts I sourced to build a hot TR6, rebuild a TR4 motor and to do the maintenance on my everyday cars.

My Merc guy now is ok with it too.

I can honestly say I don't source easy to find stuff, generally I leave that to the shop, but tougher to find parts, hell yes, they were happy to let me do the leg work. I've NEVER had a mechanic say no, not once, to parts that I provided. Maybe it's because I don't buy cheap **** parts, maybe it's because I'm such a cool guy, I don't know, but in 40 years of owning and fixing 'em, I've never had a car guy turn me down.

Brian Crall is probably not the best example to use, he can be a little, um, edgy.

D
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  #58  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:01 PM
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Dave - I never said "shops won't do it" but I know they really don't want to. I'm sure it depends on the relationship the client has with the shop. But, the shops do want to make a margin on parts and they don't want to warranty a part they did not supply (hence, make a margin on). Pretty simple concept and I don't blame them.

I'll give you a similar example: In my main business, we use outside vendors for plating. I may send them $100K in parts value for a $2K in plating cost. If they screw the parts up, they give me $2K - not $100K. The reason is simple - they can't warranty a service in which the value of the parts is worth more than the cost of the service.

Not the same, but very similar concept.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:19 PM
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As a Toyota dealer
We used only OEM parts from our distribution network.
The only exception was tires.

We had the highest service rating possible all of our years.

If a customer asked to use his parts we kindly declined.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:22 PM
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Good friend of mine works the front desk at an independent shop that does mostly high-end cars. Before that, he was a service advisor at various Japanese car dealerships. His background was in sales, has never picked up a wrench.

When he needs to order parts for a job at the current shop, he's paralyzed without having a part number on hand. Doesn't seem able to research and improvise if necessary. Kind of like when you go to a Napa or Oreilly's for something simple and generic, and the first question the guy asks you is the year, make, and model so they can look something up.
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