360Stradale 6-speed manual conversion | FerrariChat

360Stradale 6-speed manual conversion

Discussion in '360/430' started by alberto, Jul 11, 2007.

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  1. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2001
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    Is it possible to convert a CS from F1 to manual? Has anyone done it? Any idea of cost, complications, etc.? Would it be less expensive to convert a regular 360 manual to a CS?

    I did a search and came up empty on the subject.

    Thanks.
     
  2. PCH

    PCH F1 Rookie

    Apr 7, 2004
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    Lost for words.
     
  3. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    What about upgrading the F1 gb to the Superfast gearbox? That would be weet.
     
  4. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #4 360trev, Jul 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Apparently there exists 1 official Ferrari factory 360CS in manual. Ferrari are keeping very tight lipped on the subject and wont confirm or deny the existance of the car. Its allerged that the car was originally a brand new 360CS that was converted at the factory for an owner who literally wrote them a blank cheque to do it. Money talks and all that.

    I'll be posting a whole host of detailed thread on this very subject in forthcoming weeks with lots of pictures. I've just done this. :) My love of the 360CS meant I could not bare to hack away at a CS itself (not enough to go round anyway). It has therefore been easier to start with a manual 360 Modena and work forwards. Just like what Ferrari did actually :)

    Personally I'm not from the 'Playstation generation' with regards to flappy paddle gearboxes vs manuals. Having spent years perfecting heel and toe myself I get much more satisfaction from a stick shift and blipping the throttle myself. I love the feeling of being in total control than letting the computers and hydraulics have all the fun (even if the auto is quicker at shifting than me!), this way I am driving and its far more fun for my own personal tates. Again this subject is like marmite, everyone has their own OPINION, and there is no right or wrong answer (dont start!), at least Lamborgini saw sense and offered BOTH transmissions on their Supperlegger.

    Anyway, so the path I took was to start with a Modena and went through EVERY SINGLE part on the microfiche between the 360 and the CS. (They M and CS share same identical chassis). I'll post the differences and all the part numbers in time.

    In order to keep the costs reasonable I decided to buy an accident damaged written off (front end right offset) crash damaged CS as a donor parts car.
    Stripping the modena down of all its frapperies and removing every single part takes several weeks and a total dedication. Its not for everyone, the whole dash, etc has to be replaced and a custom adaptation/fabrication of the center console is required.

    A happy coincidence of this project I discovered Ferrari could have lightened the CS substiantially more!!! I originally had a weight reduction goal of 130kgs (with 10kg of that coming from the GEL battery), so only 10kg more than a CS but now I'm shooting for 180kgs. There are lots of things they glossed over, more will be told as and when I get the pictures. Its already been 9 weeks in the bodywork conversion (full bare metal bake strip down and spray to Rosso Scuderia has been don).

    Here is 1 teaser picture...
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  5. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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  6. club0

    club0 Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2004
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    That is so cool! Keep the pics coming. You are doing an awesome job with the car! :)
     
  7. bob348

    bob348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
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    Geoffrey
    Stradale with manual gear box...what a great job...keep posting
     
  8. scud

    scud F1 World Champ

    Oct 2, 2004
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    good luck , but too much effort IMHO .
     
  9. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Well everyone is very much entitled to his or her own opinion. I always knew this project would divide peoples opinion. However this is for me alone. I am producing a car that will be lighter, faster and for me more fun.

    I personally never really gelled with any flappy paddle system, so absolutely not too much effort. I've had them in my old lexus gs and used them about 5 times then left it in auto. Great for pretending your schumacher but for really driving and getting as one with the car you cannot beat a metal shifted gate (yes, my opinion). Marmite again.. :)
     
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  10. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Stage 1 - Body transformation
    I have had my 360's bodywork converted to full CS specification (only using official Ferrari parts and panels). As part of this process I have done a full bare metal oven bake repaint so it also looks like a brand new car which is a definate added bonus as I feel like I'm getting a new car :)

    I decided to go with stunning Rosso Scuderia paint, I must say I am so happy I did this because I absolutely love this colour in the flesh. Already I feel the car is stunning to look at and thats before its even all been put back together properly, I'm thrilled with the progress so far!

    So what have I had done/in process of being done so far?

    1. Rosso Scuderia paint (full strip down, bare metal oven bake)
    2. 360CS Front Bumper
    3. 360CS Front Bumper Challenge Grills
    4. 360CS Side Skirts (pair)
    6. 360CS Engine Cover Lid with Pronounced Nulder
    7. 360CS Engine Plexi-glass (! - Silly expensive but SAVES tonnes of weight!)
    8. 360CS Engine Hex nut fixing screws
    9. 360CS Engine Cover Carbon Stays (pair of)
    10. 360CS Challenge Rear Grille (Lightweight aluminium version with larger holes compared to Modena's heavy steel challenge grille)
    11. 360CS Challenge Rear Badge (had to fit it because of the fixing holes in above grille)
    12. 360CS Rear Bumper
    13. 360CS Rear Bumper heat shields
    14. 360CS Challenge rear grilles (3 of)
    15. 360CS Carbon Engine Vent Garnish grilles (2 of)
    16. 360CS Carbon Motorized Mirrors (pair of)
    17. 360CS Tri-color stripe
    18. 360CS Fuel filler flap with Prancing Horse
    19. Odyssey PC925 (non metal jacket) lightweight racing battery
    20. Capristo Level 1 sports exhaust with polished tips
    21. 20" Split Rim Trafficstar lightweight racing alloys


    Detailed pics following in a few days time..

    Next phase.. full cs interior & weight reduction.
     
  11. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #11 360trev, Jul 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With a challenge race team in the UK providing technical support to the project I am happy to report it wont be done sloppy.

    For instance I am also taking the opportunity to in phase 1 strengthen the chassis to F430 spec's before I supercharge the engine to 550hp-600hp. Goal is 0-60mph 3.5 sec, 220mph vmax so the chassis needs considerable development...
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  12. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    DAYUM!!! I love it!!!

    Is that an F50 nose on the wall in an early picture?

    What are you doing for interior insulation and flooring? Have you removed most of the original fluff?
     
  13. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Daniel,
    Thanks for the vote of support! You do have an eagle eye, Yes indeed it is an F50 nose cone on the wall :) heh

    Regarding the interior it will be completely stripped out back to the chassis ready for the strenthening before a full CS interior replacement will be fitted.
     
  14. Dohhunter

    Dohhunter Karting

    Nov 1, 2005
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    I also hope you are putting the CS braking system on ;)
     
  15. duskybird

    duskybird F1 World Champ
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    Trev, keep it up! And keep us posted.
     
  16. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Actually I may start with the CS CCM (after all they are on my cs donor car :) ) but not sure I'll stick with them because...

    I am looking into getting hold of the latest brake by wire (prototype) Siemans Wedge brakes. These are the latest electromagnetic items that will grace production cars from 2009 onwards. They save a LOT of weight because they require no master brake servo, no brake lines, no brake fluid, no hydraulics, etc. you get the message, i.e. they save tonnes of weight and since they are electromagnetic they always apply the best possible braking effort before locking up the wheel, measured hundreds of times of seconds (something you cannot do on a boggo old fashioned hydralic system). They still use CCM discs just a whole different technology advancement. I'm sure Ferrari are looking very seriously into this seriously cool technology... watch this space...
     
  17. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    You bet I will bill. thanks!
     
  18. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2001
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    Thank you very much for your post. Very exiting project you are undertaking. You will have one kick ass car when you are done.

    I presume by your post that it is possible to put in a manual into a CS, if the factory did it. Your decision to start with a 6speed manual and convert was due solely to your concern of not modifying a CS to begin with, or was it a technical decision on your part that starting with manual was easier/better/cheaper?

    Thanks again for posting this information.

    Alberto
     
  19. Ferrari32

    Ferrari32 Karting

    Jan 29, 2007
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    You're a maniac! What an intense project. Keep up the good work. Very intersesting.
     
  20. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Yes you can retro fit a manual 6-speed system into a CS. To be honest that is a MUCH easier path as the gearbox is identical across semi-automatic and manual but it seems cringe worthy to do it that way (hence Drews comment earlier in the thread).

    Ferrari designed their paddle system to work in both applications without requiring a different gearbox (for maximum parts sharing). It is just driven by cables compared to hydraulics in the automatic gearbox application.

    My question would be if its wise from a residual point of view to modify the CS since the Modena is quite a common car so has a much lower price point compared to a CS. Its probably much less of an issue uprating a modena to a CS compared to butching the instant classic that is the CS. Ultimately, do whatever you feel is right, its your money!!! Enjoy and good luck!!!
     
  21. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    WOW.. That is crazy . We need more pics !! Can you post pics of the 2 donor cars before it started ?

    If i understand correctly you are stripping the written off Stradale of its parts and puting them on your manual Modena ? ( seats, brakes , rear view mirrors , exhaust , bumpers etc..)

    Very exciting !!
     
  22. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Its interesting how much control marketing departments have over car programme development these days. Take the Lamborgini Gallardo Superlegga, an awesome car no doubt but the marketing department would NOT allow the engineers to make a pure Rear Wheel Drive variant of the car insisting their brand image must always have Quattro 4-wheel driven power at its center (regardless of the fact its a lightweight special and they would have saved at least another 50kgs, maybe 100kgs!) and really the car didnt need 4wd. The engineers wanted pure RWD but the marketing said "No!".

    Take Ferrari and the 360CS, again the engineers no doubt would have loved to make a manual variant of the car (and ditch the electric windows, electric mirrors, fit a gel battery, etc.) but the brand image, the marketing people really are leaning on its Formula one fame, hence flappy paddles are here to stay - and they didnt want to make it too good because the 430LP must be better... I wouldnt be surprised if Ferrari completely drop the use of manual boxes in their next model line up making them all automatics. I am sure this will please the newer generation of drivers but not everyone is happy with this decision. Why dont they make a computer that drives for us too? Erm, no thanks.

    I also feel there was no real reason to up cc's (and weight) when its already been proven that supercharging the 360's engine yields enormous torque and power. Over 550hp without even opening up the engine or dropping the compression ratio. Just a strap on supercharger and a couple of additional injectors for fueling, freer flowing exhaust. Virtually no extra weight added. Problem is aftermarket tuner Novitec proved that this gives 0-60mph in 3.5 secs and pretty close to 10 seconds quarter mile (and 220mph). Why would anyone pay $1m for an Enzo if it could get this kind of beat for $250k car? Exactly... Many people wouldnt think it was worth the extra if performance was the same. Its the same reason why Porsche deliberately crippled their Caymen (they wont fit an LSD on the car), why? because it treds on the toes of their much more expensive 911 then! Can you imagine the embarrasment if 911's where being beated by the much cheaper hardtop boxster variant?

    So my take on it is this, I'm building my own car using every possible bit of engineering expertise available to me (which is pretty extensive actually..) having people helping me who have built Michelloto spec engines, etc. and heavily partipated in GT-C and Challenge series racing around Europe. I am in good hands. Free of the binds of Marketing people the engineers can truely build me the car of my dreams without having to have enough money to have to sell my house to do it...

    Just my perspective...
     
  23. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Pretty much. All the CS specific body panels are brand new though. I'm yet to collect the written off CS, its waiting to be given clearance from the insurance company.

    I will post the pictures as soon as I get them from the body shop, these include extensive pics of the stripping down of my car from its Modena clothes to its bare shell ready for the 'concours' worthy bare metal paint job and rebuild.

    I collect the car on Saturday from its 9 week body transformation. Really excited!!
     
  24. Hubert888

    Hubert888 F1 Veteran
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    360trev,

    wow! your project sounds unreal. good luck with it and definitely keep us posted on updates!
     
  25. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Thanks! I promise to post LOTS of pictures on Saturday afternoon!
     

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