360 spider door locking closing problem | FerrariChat

360 spider door locking closing problem

Discussion in '360/430' started by spiderscott, Nov 23, 2007.

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  1. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Having a prob with the 360 drivers door. I came back from 2 weeks hol and went to take the car out for a spin, reversed it out the garage and noticed my drivers door would'nt shut correctly. After several attempt i managed to close it (basically had to slam it shut). I thencheck the door cosing striker and adjusted it so the door closes smoothly ok now.

    The problem I still have is that the car will not lock, If i press the remote key pad (or put the key in the dorr lock and turn) The locks go through the central locking motion and go to close but then stop and unlock ........ its like they are getting caught on something and reversing their motion. had a look around and cannot see anything obvious, only thing i notice is that on the drivers door (which is the one causing the problem) the actual door handle you lift to open the door, the biting point in which it physically opens the latch is right at the top when the handle is fully extended up , this feels alot higher than it used to be and also higher than the other door.

    Before I have to strip the door apart and look does anyone have any ideas ??

    Also how easy is it to access that lock, do I need to take all the internal door card off ?

    Scott
     
  2. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    OK, soo I decided to strip the lock out myself and figure out what was going wrong. I will now write up the procedure for anyone facing lock problems on a 360 in future ( I imagine the 430 is exactly the same internal working).

    Basically the fix was two fold:
    Firstly the major problem was the the cable (similar to an old bike brake cable) has stretched and rusted in the internal sleeve. What this caused was it ment that because the cable could not retract fully back to its home position the closer lever on the locking mech would not fully close. This intern then caused the locking lever on the lock mech to not work as the first lever must be fully in one position for the lock to work.

    Note the first problem I experienced with the 360 door was that the door would not shut .... this is now clear that was caused because of the stretched and rusted seized cable was actually infact holding the opening lock in the open position thus not lacthcing on the door striker pin on the pillar. After a few slams this must have loosened the cable very slightly allowing door closer/opening .....but then caused second problem of NO door locking.

    OK so next i will load pictures of how to strip out the door and lock to fix problem:
     
  3. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    #3 spiderscott, Nov 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Removing the 360 internal door card.

    This is a very good design and easy to remove 5-10 mins max. You need to remove this to get easy access to internal workings (locks, windows, door light etc etc)

    Pic 1 : This is before i got my grubby little hands on the car (always good to take a before pic incase you go wrong)

    Pic2 : Ok this is the lower door trim, you need to remove this. A total of 10 screws need to be replaced here. You then simply pull out away from the door..... job done !!!

    Pic 3: Next you need to remove the nice clean leather internal door card. Firstly remove the internal opening/lock handle: 2 screws here (1one under a protective cover, then one under the lock holing this to the door card). Next to make it easy to remove the door card its best to remove the internal mirror cover/ tweeter speaker, this simply with a bit of jiggling about pulls out, no need to disconnect cable here, just fold the cover over the door to get it out the way. Next you can now remove the door card, to do this pull out the bottom od f the door card, then lift up ..... there are 3 hooks on the inside of the door cover that hook themselves over 3 points on the metal door ...... 3 points labeled in picture no 3.
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  4. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    #4 spiderscott, Nov 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok just to show you one of the problems here.

    Pic 4: This is a pic of my passenger door handle (remember mine is a Uk car so different side to the states). You can see here the gap is what I would consider normal. Basically this gap is showing the biting point where the door would open.

    Pic 5: Ok same pic but with my drivers side door, as you can see the gap here is MUCH bigger again showing the biting point when the door would open, this is basically with the handle almost fully extended, if the cable stretched any futher the door would not open.
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  5. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Right now lets look inside.

    Only thing i have removed here without showing a pic is a sound deadening foam cover that sticks into place under the door card, you just pull this off CAREFULLY, so it can be replaced later with no rips.

    Pic 6: Righty this is just to show you lot what a 360 door looks like with out the covers, clearly here you can see the window mech. under the far right hand side is obviously the locking mechs

    Pic 7: Ok here you can see the lock mech pictured inside the car. Basically what I want to show here is that problem part was the cable that connected to the 'External door handle lever' this had seized causing the lever not to be able to return to its 'home' position and subsequently not allowing the lock mech to move.

    Pic 8: Here Ive taken a pic looking up inside the door, this is to show you of an adjuster. Basically you can use this to simply adjust the cable of the external door handle ........ it might be the fact that cable has slightly stretched and can simply be adjusted. 8mm spanner and small hands required for the job.
    (Unfortunatly with mine the cable had seized almost solid and eventually snapped)

    Pic 9: This is the problem, The external door cable, mine had rusted inside and seized soo no movement !!
     
  6. spiderscott

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    #6 spiderscott, Nov 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Pic 10: this is just to show you how to remove the external door handle if required. Quite a fiddly job you first need to remove the internal cable that connector to the inside of the handle and also 1 power connector. Then remove the 2 screws labled in pic 10

    pic 11: This is to show the 3 screws required to remove the complete door lock mech from inside the door. There are various connectors and cables you will need to remove from the lock in order to actually remove it from the car, this is not difficult just slightly fiddly.

    Pic 12: This is the complete lock outside the car ......... ITS A FIAT LOCK !!!! ok its stamped Fiat/ Lancia with a number B792 on it.

    Pic 13: Right, this pic is looking at the reverse sie of the door card with the internal lock mech. Like the External door opening handle there is ALSO a 8mm adjuster on the Internal handle.... mine was completely loose, soo here you can see the pic of me tightening it back up.
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  7. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Ok thats all folks !!!

    Basically all that remains is for me to order up a replacement cable fit it and adjust it for the door handle. Now I know what im doing the strip down and replacement should take between 30-60 mins max.

    To rebuild its simply just the reverse of my teardown above, no hidden catches here.

    Hope this helps someone out in the future.

    All the best
    Scott
     
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  8. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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  9. jolttsp

    jolttsp Rookie

    Oct 9, 2007
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    It takes a lot of extra effort to make a writeup while working. Thanks!!
     
  10. Nicke

    Nicke Formula Junior

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    Really great write up, thank you! Reminds me of the time when the 360 spider door got jammed closed, and as you can see in the pics the first step is to remove the lower trim... try to do that with the door closed! Anyways, ended up changing the lock to a 5€ scrapyard FIAT RITMO lock since the lock was a part at Ferrari that needed to be oredered and needed the door to work asap. Only difference is the electric sound when opening/closing the lock, the RITMO lock is slower.
     
  11. fc2

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    Hey Scott,

    Thanks for taking the time to document this. I'm sure it'll come in handy for someone in the near future.

    Frank
     
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  12. Steve R

    Steve R F1 Rookie
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    +1 nice work, well presented!! ;)
     
  13. zippyslug31

    zippyslug31 Formula 3

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    Yesterday I dug deep into the driver's door on a 360 Modena and found this thread documenting the passenger's door deconstruction. It was helpful so I wanted to document my misadventures for others who may have to deal with this in the future. Sorry, no pictures, but the above shots are pretty close... if you want to see what the driver's side looks like, just look at the above shots in a mirror! 'Nuf said! ;)

    Yesterday I had the misfortune of having my driver's door die on me (external handle). I had to hop into the passenger's side, reach over, and then open my door from the inside handle; luckily this still worked. My symptom was that the external door handle seemed to work fine (still felt "spring loaded"), but simply did not unlatch the door. Tried arming/disarming the alarm hoping the lock was simply confused. No luck. Oh joy.... time to dig into the door.....

    Correct steps:
    - remove alum/CF trim piece.
    - remove the lock linkage rod from the door, leaving it attached to the door panel. With the alum trim removed, look behind the door panel at the rear and move the lock button... you will see this linkage moving.
    - unsure if this is factory or not, but my 360 also had what appeared a general purpose trim screw attaching the bottom edge of the door panel. If, after removing the alum trim, the door panel does not easily pull away from the door a few inches then get on your back and look under the bottom of the door. Unsure if this stock or not since it appeared a little "hacky" but regardless, this screw is quickly dispatched.
    - took out both door speak and tweeter just so they were not in the way.
    (at this time things became crazy as I started removing the nuts attaching the arm rest trying to free the panel and access the bracket behind the arm rest that I could see but not easily reach. DO NOT FALL INTO THIS SAME TRAP!)
    - after some swearing, I realized that the small black padded bottom of the internal door latch pulls right up. Mine appeared to be attached lightly with double sided tape. This is found right in front of the internal door latch in the little "well" in the arm rest. Remove the screw found under this pad.
    - pull the black portion of the armrest up slightly (the linkage will still be attached) and you can access the final door panel screw.
    - after the last screw is removed I carefully rolled the window down and then pulled the door panel up to clear the top edge hooks.
    - the door panel can then be rotated down, the window rolled up once again, and this allows access to the internals of the door.

    This is where I found my problem: just as the OP documented, my cable also had become corroded and it snapped in two.
    - first I removed the half of the cable from the external door handle.
    - next I need to remove the door latch so I could access the other end of the cable (see OP's pic 7). VERY CAREFULLY pulled the bottom of the shaft attached to the door's key lock (white plastic). This pulls straight off as this is attached to a ball & socket.
    - removed the 2 power connectors on the bottom of the door latch.
    - removed the 3 allen bolts (see pic 11 above).
    - cut the cable tie holding the external cable to the door frame.
    - pulled latch to a more accessible location (but left the internal cable attached).
    - removed the other half of the broken cable from the door latch.

    Last thing I did was called Daniel for a replacement cable (only about 30 bucks at the time of this post).

    Hoping the installation is easier than the teardown.


    Things I did not do (and some incorrect things that I DID do)
    - Removed all but 1 of the 8mm nuts holding the arm rest in place PRIOR to figuring out how the panel really came off. Yes I had to chew up my arm quite a bit jamming it back behind the door panel. Don't waste your time as it probably won't do you much good; this was a dead end.
    - Found out that you can remove the rear/top of the armrest by gently prying up the rear of this top cap (the more pointed end, not the end adjacent to the interior door latch). This is simply held in place with clips attached to the under side of the top cap. Very easy. This also allows access to adjust the cable attached to the interior door latch.
    - I did not both removing the exterior door handle as access was good enough with the window rolled up (albeit a little tight).
    - did not disassemble the internal door handle's cable so both the door latch and panel were always "hanging". Just didn't want to upset that cable's current adjustment.
     
  14. Nicke

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    Great post and great thread! Threads like this make me think there should be a star rating system on this site, since this is a 5 star thread.

    Anyways, you forgot the most important notes that every "do it yourself manual" has

    In this case they could be:

    1. Dissasemble the door
    2. There is special tool that will make the job very easy to do
    3. Please refer to owners manual
    4. Please contact your dealer.

    Or my favourite in all the manuals, eg. when you are changing some suspension or alike thightly fastened parts, "unscrew bolt" (This usually result in many bloody cuts, open knuckles, tons of swordoms, a couple of beers, dirty clothes, argument with whoever happens to be close to you - and then you look at the pic, a person unscrews the bolt with two fingers....yeah right...)
     
  15. 360herewego

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    If everyone documented the repairs like SpiderScott we would never had to take our cars to the shop!!! THank you very much!!
     
  16. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    +1
    Yes and on that note I will attempt to fix mine with the help on this thread , it's just broken and gone slack and won't open the door, it does open from the inside though.

    Is it nearly always a cable snapped or as it being a seemingly regular fault is there something else that causes the problem.

    Why I say this is because I nearly bought one, a 360 that is and I was put off it because the guy selling it said come back in an hour and I will have it fixed, as if it was a recurring fault...?
     
  17. Jhand

    Jhand Rookie

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    So does anyone know approximately how long this takes to take apart the door and fix the cable?

    Is it not interesting that this never happens on any major car brand that i know of unless the car is 20 years old or more?
     
  18. elmani

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    This is an engineering report , with a great presentation... i wish i had it 3 month ago when i had to strip the door because of a loose cable. Ferrarichat actually helped with couple of previous postings but not as clear as this one. Special care i like to mention when removing the panel screws in pic 2, these require the right head size or else they may get ruined. also the 2 central screws in the door panel of pic 3 are tricky.
    thanks again and cheers!
     
  19. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

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    I just did this recently for another reason, and if I remember correctly the front facing screws in the aluminum trim are 4mm allen screws and the four smaller ones (two under the window gasket and two at the bottom of the trim) are 3mm allen screws.

    For me there was a third screw in the door handle on the inside...one under the leather pad where you put stuff, one under the interior door release, and then one under the plastic trim...it's well-detailed in the workshop manual.
     
  20. elmani

    elmani Formula Junior

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    For me there was a third screw in the door handle on the inside...one under the leather pad where you put stuff, one under the interior door release, and then one under the plastic trim...it's well-detailed in the workshop manual.[/QUOTE]

    I agree... now i remember... it was a pain finding this third screw...no shop manual in hand... cheers
     
  21. deluboz

    deluboz Formula Junior

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    Scott,

    Thank you very much for the detail thread about Door Lock issues, just fixed my Door Lock last night due to Cable went bad. :)
     
  22. spiderscott

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    No way, guess what ..

    just bought another 360 in the week and 3 days later my drivers door cable has snapped, luckily I wrote this up a couple of years back when i had the 360 Spider ....

    thankyou me for helping myself out ha ha ha just used my own write up to help remember how to do it, now just need to order another cable.

    Its funny both my 360s were around 6 years old when the cable broke, sure is a bloomin terrible design, fortunatly its a cheap fix in ferrari terms, just checked and the cable is £12 from prosport ferrari here in the UK.
     
  23. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

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    Congrats again for the excellent post!
     
  24. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

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    I wonder if Ferrari chose the cable design because it is so light?
     
  25. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

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    More likely was simply lying around in the Fiat or Lancia parts bin!
     

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