My Fabspeed 360 header install | FerrariChat

My Fabspeed 360 header install

Discussion in '360/430' started by dwe8922, Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. dwe8922

    dwe8922 Formula Junior

    Feb 27, 2004
    390
    FL
    Full Name:
    David
    #1 dwe8922, Apr 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've had a lot of people pm me about my experience with my Fabspeed headers, and I haven't had anything to say about them yet, since I haven't had a chance to install them. So, I thought I would give some notes on my purchase/install/drive experience, since there seems to be a lot of interest, and given Ferrari's reputation w/ headers. First off, my car is a 2000, w/ around 14k miles.

    I dealt w/ Jeremy at Fabspeed, and he was helpful, and seemed to be "their guy" in dealing w/ Ferrari exhausts. He was punctual in returning calls, and everything arrived on time. I had them ceramic coated to help w/ heat, and they also added a bung in each header for the o2 sensor. My first concern was whether or not I would need to relocate the o2 sensors, but was told that the remaining cat between the two original o2 sensor locations would suffice, not upset the computer causing a cel. My second concern came later, when I realized that my car did indeed have secondary air injection rails on the factory headers. I called again, and Jeremy explained that eliminating this wouldn't upset the computer, or throw a cel. He said that it would on a 355, and that their 355 headers come w/ the secondary air injection rails for that reason.

    Removing the original headers was pretty tough, as the bolts are very hard to get to due to limited space. First, I disconnected the hose for the air injection, and removed it, and then the o2 sensors. Do this before trying to remove the headers. Next, I loosened the lower header bolts (13mm) using a combination of extensions, swivel sockets, and a wrench. The uppers are the most difficult, especially toward the front of the car, partly due to the air injection rails. I ended up putting a towel over the fender, and used the open end of the wrench guided by a light and mirror. I have both snap on and craftsman, and neither closed end had enough offset to work for me. The upper bolts take a lot of patience! For part of it, I put a blanket over the motor, and laid on top to reach the bolts closest to the front of the car.

    The header to cat bolts are easy, but getting the header free was like delivering a baby. On both sides I questioned whether it would come out. I tried all kinds of different ways, but on both sides they came out with the cat-side end coming down first. Don't force it. Be careful not to damage the doughnut gaskets on the engine, or the collar gasket on the other end. They all seemed fragile. Also pay attention to which direction the collar gasket comes off, as it is different on each end.

    The new headers were much easier to get in place w/o all of the shielding. I got all of the bolts started (the forward ones are still tough to reach), and thought I'd have it all wrapped up pretty quick, but as luck would have it, the reliefs for the bolt heads on the new headers were too small. I tried both snap on and craftsman sockets and wrenches, and all were too thick to tighten the bolts. Some had enough room, but most didn't (urrrrgggghhhh). My first thought was to pull the headers back off, and grind the reliefs out a little more, but didn't want to b/c of the ceramic coating. I'll have to call Jeremy Monday to see what he recommends, then I'll update once we get it figured out.

    Sorry for the limited pictures; It's hard to take a break to snap photos when you're in the thick of it. The more I work on this car, the more respect I have for good Ferrari mechanics. Sometimes I look at the way things are laid out in this car, and wonder what were they thinking! The Porsches I've had have been easier to work on, but the driving feel, and noises of the 360 are second to none.

    David
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  2. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    thanks for posting. I"ll be watching this one.
     
  3. Barrister

    Barrister Formula Junior

    Aug 11, 2008
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    "Big D"
    Great write up.
     
  4. 900ssDuke

    900ssDuke Karting

    Sep 12, 2007
    214
    UK
    Excellent post. Please keep us informed on your progress.
     
  5. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
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    #5 cf355, Apr 13, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009

    Its a little surprising that the manufacturer didnot leave enough clearance for the stock fasteners (nuts).
    It would appear that either you need some very thin nuts or you will have to grind off some of the exhaust pipe around the nuts to use a socket.

    p.s another option would be to use hand wrenches.......cut a wrench apart and weld it back together to get the angle of attack you need to install these nuts with the clearances you have.
     
  6. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,661
    Does the CS have the same headers as a standard 360 ????
     
  7. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,372
    FL full time
    Interesting.... I am surprised that there is limited relief for the nuts. Also looking at your pictures, it appears the the new header flanges are thicker than the stock flanges. The header studs seem not to reach past the nut. There should be on or two threads sticking past the nut to insure proper clamping/locking on the nuts.

    Seems that this product is not ready for prime time IMHO.

    It will be interesting to hear what FabSpeed has to say.

    Good Luck with your install.
     
  8. dwe8922

    dwe8922 Formula Junior

    Feb 27, 2004
    390
    FL
    Full Name:
    David
    I talked to Jeremy this morning, and he said the kit was supposed to arrive with bolts. They supply a 12mm head vs the 13mm head on the factory bolt. He says this will give the clearance needed. He said he'd overnight them to me, and he would also send me heat shields they've come up with for the alternator and ac compressor to try free of charge.

    For the bolt length, I'm not sure how accurate the picture is since I think I just had them finger tight at that point. We'll see once I get them on.

    I thought about modifying a wrench, but I don't have a welder. I figured I'd be done way before I had a friend weld it for me, so I left it at that. However, if I planned on doing this again (hopefully not), I would definitely make a better tool! I did use hand wrenches for the top; that's the only thing that will fit between the air rail.

    I believe the cs uses the same header/air injection setup, and cats.

    I'll post again once I get it all together.
     
  9. F360-1386

    F360-1386 Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2006
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    Markham, ON, Canada
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    51216M
    Great posting and thanks for sharing , please let us know the difference before & after.
     
  10. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    David

    Are you replacing the cats as well with the headers?
     
  11. Alex@fabspeed

    Alex@fabspeed Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2006
    401
    Fort Washington, PA
    #11 Alex@fabspeed, Apr 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If you look at the picture below you will see there is more than two threads sticking out past the new nuts. We just hired a new shipping/recieving guy and he forgot to include the 16 nuts with the headers. This was clearly our fault and I stepped up to the plate and overnited David 16 nuts and also gave him a free set of heatshields for the mishap.
    I can assure you that this product is ready for primetime!
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  12. dwe8922

    dwe8922 Formula Junior

    Feb 27, 2004
    390
    FL
    Full Name:
    David
    #12 dwe8922, Apr 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    No, not doing the headers yet. I'd like to down the road since I think it would lower the heat in the engine bay a little.

    I received my bolts the next morning as promised, along with the heat shields, so I was happy with Jeremy's effort, and that I could get back on the project last night. I got the drivers side shield in and the header bolted up. The ac shield goes in pretty easy w/ the headers in place. 3 bolts hold it in place. I reached the lower header bolts with a socket. Torque is 23 ft/lb. A swivel and different length extensions help a lot. The top bolts can he fed on carefully from underneath the car, but I had to lay on top of the motor again to tighten them. The smaller 12mm bolts do the trick with the reliefs as they are. I ended up using a 3/8" breaker bar to tighten the top just b/c it has a very small head .

    I couldn't figure out exactly how the alternator shield fit, so I stopped and called Jeremy this morning for direction. I put the passenger side header in tonight using about the same process as the other side. The shield wasn't too bad to fit, and I did it after getting the header in. You can see in the picture that I bent the down tube for better clearance between the alternator wire and the clutch hydraulic line. I didn't want them to touch. Jeremy sent me a picture of it in place, and they didn't have to bend the tube, and theirs seemed to clear fine; each fit is a little different I guess. The new headers have a lot more room to work around and are definitely easier to get on than the stock one were to get off.

    My headers didn't mate up evenly to the cats, so I tried loosening one so I could rotate it to adjust the fit, as Jeremy said would need to be done. I loosened the collar between the cat and muffler, but couldn't get the cat to budge. It was too late to take the bumper off, so I called it a night. Any suggestions on loosening the cat without having to take the bumper off?

    Can't wait to fire it up!
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  13. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    You must be tired as I believe you meant you were not doing the Cat replacement.

    Looks very good so far.
     
  14. dwe8922

    dwe8922 Formula Junior

    Feb 27, 2004
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    David
    Yeah..... That's what I meant to say. Long day at the office!

    They are pretty. I was expecting the ceramic coating to be a chalky white like my dad had on a truck growing up, but they almost have polished look to them.
     
  15. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    You are not doing this from the floor are you?
     
  16. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Can you please (pretty please) weigh the stock headers. How much do they weigh each?? Anyone know how much the cats weight too?

    I'd love to know the accurate weight of the full exhaust system, tail pipes, backbox, cats and headers. I know the stock exhaust (on the 360) weights 68lbs [31kg's] on its own, the strad one is still hefty at -7kgs less.

    And to RichardCH, yes the standard headers from the 360 are used on the Strad too.
     
  17. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2005
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    As I recall RayJohn posted weights of the cats and exhaust componenets when he installed Hyperflow cats. He didn't do the headers but a quick search should produce the other numbers.
     
  18. duskybird

    duskybird F1 World Champ
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    13lb 1oz each
     
  19. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    I just can't imagine headers making anything better on my CS, which has Hyperflows, it sounds more than perfect at 9K rpm (ecu tuned), for my 430 Spider I sold my Hyperflows as that is anyway perfect as is, however for my 996 TT I have just bought and fitted new headers as that is just a basket case from an experiential perspective, even though it blows yours brains out in a straight line at 1.3 Bar Boost
     
  20. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    I can weigh the stock 360 headers ........ but I only have a bathroom scale ............. maybe I will take one to the post office lobby and use their scale ........ :)
     
  21. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    When done would you please be kind enough to post the results?
     
  22. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Weigh yourself first. Then hold the headers and weight yourself again, deduct your original weight and you should have the weight of the headers. This should be reasonably accurate.
     
  23. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    Will do so ................ :D

    Good idea ........ my scale is digital and measures to 0.2 lb resolution ........... give me a couple hours to post results ........... :)
     
  24. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    Doen't he also have to calculate for any lost gasses!!
     
  25. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    I think I will let this one "pass"
     

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