Ferrari 360 vs 430 for me!

Since you are still in school, I assume you are young, so if you want to wait for the 430 to drop in price go ahead. For me, I got tired of waiting, I also wanted the 430 for the "assumed" lower maintenance cost but I actually prefer the looks of the 360. I also absolutely did not want F1 since it prevents me from doing the clutch myself.

I ended up with a 360 F1 and don't regret it, I would have preferred a stick but the F1 system is awfully nice. I just wish I could afford a SD2 now since with a F1 you need it if you want to do the clutch yourself.

Either car will serve you well and remember that the 360's belts are not that expensive to have done or do yourself, so it really should not be a deal breaker. I am shocked at your Swedish price quote, are you sure you did the conversion correctly ? at that price you could almost ship the car to the US have the belts done and return the car to Sweden and still save money. The 355 engine out is actually not that hard, time consuming but not rocket science.

 

Here is some simple math. $98,000 - $62,000 = $36,000 price difference. With a belt change cost of less than $2000 and a 3 year interval: 36,000/2,000 = 18 belt changes * 3 years = 54 years. Yep, you can change the belt every 3 years for 54 years and only just use up the price differential. If you go to 4 or 5 years you will likely die before you make up the difference. Add in the differential in depreciation and it is even longer yet.

Pick the car you want and go for that.

 

I know this is unsolicited, but I am going to suggest neither. Get out of school, bank an emergency fund of 4 to 6 months of expenses, maybe buy a house and then save to buy a 360 or 430 with cash. Borrowing for a car like this is not wise.

I know it is hard to wait, but being able to buy it does not mean you can afford it.

 

I agree....sorry to say but the last hting on your mind should be a Ferrari....get out of school, get a solid job with long term stability....start saving for retirement....save money for emergency prurposes....I won't say don't borrow any money to buy the car but it should be one of the last things on a long list....

 

Aside from the financial advice, getting back to the question:


I do agree that the maintenance vs price difference means that the cost of maintenance for the 360 is a non issue. Pay me now or pay me later...

However, the F430 is a better car and that's why it's priced higher.

Is it worth 30 grand higher? I think so but that's my opinion. There's nothing wrong with the 360 as it's truly undervalued now. It's the best bargain in the exotic market at the moment.

Why? It's good looking, it's contemporary (few people could guess it's year of manufacture), many of them have less than 20K miles, there are a lot to choose from that have been well maintained, and it has good performance.

The only knock on the 360 is that the F430 is a better car. But, you could say that about most cars made.

 

I would save up for the F430. 2yrs ago I almost bought a blk/blk 360 coupe 22k mi., $67k...i waited 8 more months and spent another $50k on top of that+ for F430 13k mi. And I realized it was worth every dime...360 is a cool car, but the interior just looks too outdated when spending that much on your dream car IMO. I simply didn't want to spend $70k on a 10yr old car, and immediately be looking to trade in for F430.
As others said, finish school, earn some cash, by that time you will want a 458 anyway!

 

I financed my car. It makes sense in my eyes with interest rates where they are (yet another debate). Agree with the above... with the exception of the 430 being worth the price differential. Personally I don't think it's that much better.. but you or others may disagree. I also like the lines of the 360 better. That being said if you can start with the 430 then go for it.

Concerning ownership... by doing all the work yourself you can buy a car and save alot of money with it. When I was in grad school I drove a 928 that I maintained myself. Luckily the 928 is a very reliable car. The 360 is easier to work on and I do alot of it myself.

I won't go into finances with the exception to say BUYING a 360 is different than OWNING a 360. I'm at a point now that I can afford to OWN the car. I'm in a profession that is secure and my income will allow me to drop significant cash into the car if I need to. I built up savings and investments so if something happens, even an engine imploding or throwing a rod.. it wouldn't be the end of the world and wouldn't change a thing in my life. Still eat out at the same restaurants, etc. If a 3 (or 5) year service is significantly expensive for you.. i.e. something else in your life has to give to make it happen.. you're not ready to OWN the car. Both of the 430 and 360 were six figure cars when new. Their purchase price may have dropped but parts prices have remained constant. They are not cheap cars to own.. but I also don't know Sweden and how expensive/affordable things are there (i.e. VAT and Taxes on parts).

A 360 or 430 are wonderful cars, but they're also symbols of success and attainment. You don't have to be a millionaire to own one, but want to fake success either. I agree with the guys above, get on your feet, have a few thousand in savings for repairs, then get whichever car strikes your fancy. Good news is you can have that car, it will come at the right time. I never thought I would have a ferrari in my garage.

 

The main risk is loosing your job or your company going out of business and not being able to make the loan. My car was purchased from a real estate developer back in the go go days of the Housing Boom. The European economy is not impressive right now despite the "assurances" being offered by the ECB.

Here too a used Modena is the price of a fully optioned new Volvo or BMW 5 series. The difference is the warranty on the new car and the high cost of out of pocket expenses on the 360. You can have it. Just be smart, have a plan and think things through for the long term.

 

I will chime in here with the disclaimer of limited knowledge about your particular situation.

+100 vrsurgeon's comments about buying vs. owning. There is a saying in the Porsche world that the cheapest Porsche you buy will be the most expensive one you will ever own. (Probably similar in other makes as well.) Point being, sure you can buy a used Porsche or Ferrari for 20-25 cents on the dollar, but that doesn't mean that it costs 25% to own/maintain it. Tires are expensive, insurance is expensive, and repairs are expensive. Ferrari stuff is absurdly/laughably expensive. I can tell you that after a lifetime of owning Hondas, they cost comparatively nothing to own/maintain. For reference, I just spent $6K on rebuilding my Porsche tranny. I have turned a lot of wrenches in my days, but some of these things are not DIY. Although you can buy a Ferrari, you realistically need to budget say another $30K and put it in the Ferrari piggy bank. That is NOT to pay off your loan, either.

Why? IMO, these are toy cars. You want to drive them an enjoy them. You need to be able to emotionally and financially walk away from it if you need to and/or have sufficient reserves to fix a major repair or accident. Because $H!+ happens. Otherwise, you will fret every time you drive it and not enjoy it. It may become an emotional and financial burden to you instead. There will also be a lot of others that are not as appreciative of exotics as you are. It's difficult to put enough miles/kilometers on a Ferrari to justify the cost/expense. At your age, I would seriously look into something more moderate like a used Porsche to whet your feet with ownership costs. All of these cars are depreciating assets as well. Investments, housing, family (wife/kids) are all big future costs you need to keep in mind, and IMO, have priority.

I'm glad you are dreaming and setting your goals high. That is the right start. But, also, unlike your Ferrari, I doubt you plan to live at your parents forever. There will be other priorities in life, trust me, certainly once you get married and have kids. Be certain your future ownership is a happy one and not a burden. Good luck!

 

As far as financing, I agree with what most are saying. NEVER finance a toy car. Finance life priorities such as a house, or a business, not a toy.

Back to your question on the 360 vs 430. Keep in mind that the 430 is on a steeper depreciation curve than the 360. By the time you are ready to pull the trigger, the price differential between the two cars will be less than what you are seeing today.

Good luck with your decision.

 

You are, of course, free to do what you like. However, the above makes me cringe. If you want to discuss it further PM me and we'll take it off line.

Otherwise, it really is a judgment call. To me, the 430 is not so much better than the 360 that it is worth the extra $. I'm not sure there is consensus one way or the other. Go with your gut.

 

I don't see anything wrong with financing. You finance all kinds of things to get it today instead of years in the future.

He'll probably get this car and sell it in a few years. Most do. So, he pays a finance charge over that period. Depreciation and upkeep will be far worse. So, what's the big deal in tossing in some interest charges?

If you can afford it and want it, I don't see the problem. Tomorrow may never come.

 

It's nearly impossible to answer that question....

 

If you really meant 355 in the price quote above then that's actually close to US prices for the same work. A 355 requires engine removal for a belt change, which account for the large labor charge. But a 360 can have its belts changed with the engine in the car, so typically costs more like $3500. If it truly costs double that in Sweden for a 360 belt change then it does change the math of 360 vs 430, but as someone else pointed out, there is a large price premium for getting a 430. You are more likely to sell the car for something else before breaking even on the money (despite your current intentions and past history), though I agree the 430 is the better car.

 

Because a house is an investment right? You can't loose money on it right? ;-) I'd better tell that to 60% of the homeowners I know that bought that line 2 years ago and are underwater. Businesses always succeed right... spare me.

There's nothing wrong with financing a toy if the depreciation cure is flattening..

 

Financial leverage works both ways.

With inflation you hopefully pay back with "cheaper" dollars.

With deflation you get killed. Gotta pay back 100 cents on the dollar PLUS interest while the value of the assets plummet. Ala the housing debacle of the last 5 years.

You decide.

 

Can't speak for Sweden. Here in the US, housing prices have averaged 4% gains over the last 50-70 years or so. Inflation may increase the numerical price of the home, but if you adjust it for inflation the price essentially has been increasing historically at 4%. Can that money be put into a place that produces more than 4% and thus be a better "investment". I tend to think of a house as a place to live not as an investment per se.

Again not sure in sweden, here there is a mixed bag interms of home ownership versus renting.. and its market specific. Some markets are cheaper to rent than own. With an apartment you have no equity, but in an ideal market adjusted rent price you should have enough to put away in savings and other investments. You also don't have upkeep, taxes, utilities (if not included in rent), homeowner association fees, etc. In NYC metro area home prices are too high compared to rents versus mortgage payment.

 

Like others, I think your priorities are screwed up....graduate and leave your parents alone already.

The short answer is look at a car 10 years older....so a 1995 f355 is around $60k and I would expect around the same for a 430....at which time the same f355 might be $80k....car values are frustrating.

 

This is probably the least understood concept, you can move down with the same leverage ratio as you move up. Unfortunately you won't get people to understand this concept over this thread.

There appears to be a lot of muddying of the water between 355 and 360. Bojje needs to understand the pros and cons for each and make a decision between them. Picking facts from different cars to support your position won't get you anywhere but I guess it could make you feel better about your decision.

If I had to guess in 10 years the 430 will be between 30%-50% of the current pricing. Call it ~40% so maybe $55-60k but that is US pricing and availability. Pricing in Sweden will undoubtedly be different and I can't say if it is more or less.

There is a lot of good advise here but Bojje will make his own decisions. Good luck with the decisions.