F430 - F1 conversion to manual | FerrariChat

F430 - F1 conversion to manual

Discussion in '360/430' started by Torquejunky, Nov 17, 2015.

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  1. Torquejunky

    Torquejunky Rookie

    May 14, 2012
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    Dannylove
    I have a cherry f430 EXCEPT I don't like the F1 tranny anymore. I have had trouble with it miss-shifting, falling into neutral, and not going in reverse. I can't find a stock manual f430 I like more than mine so I am considering a manual conversion - but I cannot find one person who has done this and I cannot seem to get straight answers out of mechanics including dealer mechs. Can anyone help?
    Thanks
     
  2. GordonF355

    GordonF355 Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2005
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    Gordon
    FYI the problems you are describing are most likely a worn out clutch that needs replaced. I am sure someone will chime in on the conversion.
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Several recent threads on this subject.
     
  4. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
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    Mr. Anderson
    Yes do a search. This has been discussed recently. Personally no way would I tackle that job. Just my .02 though.
     
  5. gandalfthegray.

    gandalfthegray. Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2006
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    Pinewood, MN
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    Steve
    Several threads but really no answers. I think though we can conclude that it hasn't been done before and that it is sounds complicated and is likely going to be costly.

    Hoping someone takes it on so we can see. :)
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Steve- Yup, that is what he will find. Been done on a 360, but not on an F430 that we have seen. Probably possible, but prohibitively expensive and a real pain in the neck.

    Danny- Take her to someone who really knows Ferrari F1 systems because it sounds like something is not right with her.
     
  7. ///Art

    ///Art Karting
    BANNED

    Oct 15, 2014
    215
    So, since the last guy posted that conversion thread, I spent about 2 hours looking everything over, parts, electrical, switches, relays, plumbing, shift linkages so on and so on. This is a project that would run just shy of $25,000.00
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Plus labor?
     
  9. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2009
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    There is always the "minus cost" of removed parts too!
     
  10. gandalfthegray.

    gandalfthegray. Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2006
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    Steve
    I think you could make a good living opening an automotive shop that specialized in 3 pedal conversions for Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. There will always be a demand.
     
  11. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Which is still cheap compared to the + $60K premiums for 3 pedal 430's I've seen.
    Also selling the removed parts could offset some of the labour charges. In my neck of the woods, 3 pedal 360's are selling for the same price of F1 430's.

    You just need to find the right tech. In my Porsche forum (Rennlist) we have several techs who can replace the Porsche 5sp transaxle with the Corvette 6 sps as well as one who replaces the engines with just about anything ( corvettes and a V12 Toyota so far)
     
  12. Hardistyfezza

    Hardistyfezza Formula Junior

    Yes - but who would by the car in the future and at what value.

    Fix the car, sort the clutch - sell the F1 and buy a manual car - problem solved.
     
  13. GordonF355

    GordonF355 Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2005
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    Gordon
    Exactly right! I wouldn't touch that bastardized car with an 11' pole! I think it would also actually decrease in value. People like stock when it comes time to resell!
     
  14. Gated

    Gated Formula 3

    Dec 21, 2009
    1,117
    I'd be pretty reluctant as well but it time it might be like a NART Spyder. A mod that is representative of a certain point in history. 20-30 years from now (if the car's been operating properly and is well documented) I think it would be less of a hindrance.
     
  15. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    Sure, after 20+ years, this sort of modification becomes part of the history of the car. Before then though, it's an unoriginal car and many, myself included, would be hesitant to buy.
     
  16. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    As usual the commenters are full of it.

    "Just sell the F1 and buy a manual"

    Really? if you want a red coupe with a stick there are none on the market that I can see. NONE.

    So for all the commenters out there saying how you can't sell it, blah blah blah.

    What other options do you have if you want the 3-pedal experience in a red 430 coupe? I'll tell you. NONE.

    Buy a red 430 F1 coupe for $110, convert it for $20-25k and then sell it when you're done. All the F1 drivers can say "yeah but its not factory"... but it really doesn't matter does it.

    Personally there is no reason why I'd buy a 430 F1. I'd go 458 if I want paddles.
     
  17. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    C'mon Curt. You know that Ferrari buyers more than any others prefer originality. Ferrari buyers get nervous if the tires aren't original. Maybe you'd be okay buying a car with such major modification, but I bet most people wouldn't be and this would either depress the value or make it more difficult to find a buyer.
     
  18. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
    6,485
    Lake Villa IL
    I guess it would depend on how nicely the job was done and the price difference between it and an original gated car.

    If an F1 car included all of it's original parts and was converted using 100% factory parts with perfect functionality at a substantial savings, I don't think it would be a tough sell to someone looking for a car to drive.

    If you are talking a no mile time capsule going to someone that will store it in a bubble, a converted car would likely not be considered.
     
  19. gandalfthegray.

    gandalfthegray. Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2006
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    See that's the irony is that all the original stick 430's are destined to be mothballed and never driven as the mileage plays such an important roll as the values sore. A converted car that is done properly could actually be driven and enjoyed at a lesser cost.

    One has to decide if they're in it to drive the car or if they're in it for the investment. If you own a 7 - 10 year old car and you don't even have 10k miles, you are in it more for the value then the enjoyment. If you really do drive your car without concern of future resale then you would buy a converted car, as I would.
     
  20. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    Even if the conversion is done with 100% genuine parts (which could be difficult to confirm), I would still have a lingering concern that maybe the work wasn't done 100% right and damage could result that would require crazy expensive repairs down the road. So, there is a risk. If I were buying a converted car, the price would have to be low enough for me to take that risk.
     
  21. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #21 vrsurgeon, Nov 25, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
    You guys don't seem to understand.. you can't be picky. There simply aren't any cars to be had. As it stands right now there are two options (assuming I want a red 430 3-pedal to replace my 360 stick).

    1. I can drive a converted 430. -or-

    2. I can drive an F1.

    Simple. If you a buyer doesn't like the idea of a converted car.. they HAVE to drive an F1. Simple. There aren't options otherwise. "It would have to be priced low" Lower than an F1? Wouldn't happen. There's too much demand and not enough supply. A converted car would command more than a stock F1. Too much demand not to. For $130-140k if I had a red 430 3-pedal that I converted using used OEM parts (kinda hard to convert without them) if anyone said "no" it's too expensive.. there would be 20 people lined up to wire funds for the car.

    What kind of damage would result? Mal-aligned shifter? Clutch pressure not enough? The Stick is such a simple thing, that if it shifts and works.. it's going to work. Syncro wear is because of people that can't drive their car. Any stick car. Not the implementation.
     
  22. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    Actually, you're forgetting Option 3: Buy another car that came with a manual transmission, and Option 4: Keep what you have and don't buy a different car. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head to force them to either buy an F1 or manual Ferrari. Yet another option is Option 5, save up the money to get a car that came with a manual from the factory.

    I don't know what could go wrong, and this is partly the problem. Who knows what could have been screwed up in the installation. I'm sure lots of little things could go wrong that could end up doing substantial damage. The not knowing for sure is what would make me, and I'm guessing others, reluctant to buy.
     
  23. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    Mar 1, 2012
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    With the demand for manual 430's being so strong and the fact no one is converting F1 cars to manual probably says it all.
    Too difficult and no one really wants a converted car.
     
  24. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,485
    Lake Villa IL
    Of course someone capable of doing quality work is a consideration.

    If someone has the knowledge and skill to correctly service an original 3 pedal 430 you would think they could install the same parts on an F1 430 as the procedures/parts would overlap.

    Just saying by the same token if someone unqualified did a clutch and replaced shifter cables/etc on a 3 pedal 430 the risk of damage is similar.

    I'm going to start researching this and attempt to get a parts list together. I wouldn't mind attempting this myself.
     
  25. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    The mechanicals aren't rocket science.
    1) Pedal box, remove and update to 3 pedal. Use a 360's pedal box.
    2) Internal shift lever, buy a 360 assembly and bolt in. Internal trim is going to differ. Run the shift cables.
    3) Buy the gearbox external shift assembly (same as 360? can't member'), bolt onto gearbox, align it per WSM with shift cables.
    4) replace clutch seal assembly for compatibility with brake fluid.
    5) Pull out TCU and revert relays to 3-pedal configuration. Worst case, trick car into being in neutral with actuator switch output.

    the *only* rub I can see is the ediff, possibly different ediff ECU. Haven't looked into this aspect.

    Honestly shouldn't be hard with a lift. Part of the issue I suspect is unlike the 348 crowd, the 430 crowd doesn't seem to work on their car as readily..
     

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