360 Challenge/Stradale Manual build thread

So my plan is going to be executed earlier than I expected.

My 28k mile 360 manual decided to pop its clutch seal the other day hence my previous clutch question thread.

I took the box out and realised that in fact its senseless to put it all back together without executing phase 1 of my Challenge/Stradale programme...

I'm going to repeat a few photos and stuff to bring this thread together into a bit of a diary

So here we go... (with apologies for sideways pictures I have no idea why they do that?)

My unsuspecting manual 360...
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With the clutch bearing knackered the car was stripped at the back like this:
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Spent a bit of time cleaning up at the back. Some of the brackets are rusted and need repainting, some of the rubberised coating on the chassis is damaged from poor work on the car previously suspect someone landed the gearbox on the crossmember without anything there to protect the fragile coating.
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It was just the seal in the clutch - a shame because I wasn't planning the conversion until the winter...
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But now its stripped - may as well!

So today I moved my Stradale engine and gearbox out of my warehouse into the garage...

It's a little tight in there now but I think I can work around it. The strad engine and box are 10k mile and won't need much other than belts and a check over.

I'm going to remove the air conditioning from the car - should save plenty of weight with that - so I need to have a look at how the challenge cars handled that on the belts...
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OK OK I confess yes I did take a cheeky photo of the Ferrari V8 next to the front of the Caterham "just to see"

HEHEHEHEHE - maybe a fraction nose heavy???
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So that's where I'm up to so far with it. Next step I think is to remove the standard modena engine and maybe move the modena box to the warehouse out of the way.

Meanwhile I'm working on obtaining hardware for the rebuild.

Steve in Oz (race comp) is making me one of his GORGEOUS NGT style intake/airboxes and I'm working at the moment to reprogram the standard manual ECU's with the stradale maps from my strad ECU's....

 

And I suppose I better post up the dashboard work I've had to pause for this lot.

I had tried and tried (and tried) to get a RHD stradale dash but with no luck at all.

So I bought a LHD strad dash upper and lower, and a modena dash, upper and lower and made the decision to convert it to RHD.

It has been an interesting project. Some photographs first of the raw pieces.
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And then I carefully measured the bits where the moulding was transposable to the other side:
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Then, piece by piece cut the dash up, always making sure not to lose overall dimension and rigidity. If you cut too much, it's gone and then getting it accurate again would be impossible without trial fitting to the car. Not good. Fibreglass roughly used to bond then ground back and re-glassed.
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Gradually, the dash was built up, each side...
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So that was where I was up to when the clutch failed and stopped dashboard play. Fair bit done, fair bit to do. But it's looking good and I've used original CS material off cuts for everything to keep it as close as possible to factory. Once it's done, I'm going to finish it in the off yellow colour of the factory so it should look identical. One cool thing is that I'm actually grinding it slightly thinner than factory everywhere - I reckon there is a full kg in there that I can take out between upper and lower dash - now that's attention to detail (OK I'm obsessive lol) ;-)

Hope you enjoyed looking at these. Will keep posting as I get them, obviously.
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Hi mike

Thank you.

In fact the stradale engine runs a higher compression. The pistons are different, cylinder heads slightly different too... And the crankcase is different too - mainly because it's machined to a different deck height to accommodate the compression change.

The gearbox is different also, utilising different gear ratios and the differential is different and output flanges are different too.

Since my goal is to create the car Ferrari would have made if they had the latitude to use challenge bits and a manual box I reckon they would have used the strad motor and box as a base... So it goes in!

Out of interest here is a list of the differences in the two cars for powertrain. It's a bit messed up because it's an excel paste. The first number on the left is the challenge stradale number, then the right hand number is the Modena number. The ones in brackets refer to part number differences for different assembly numbers or if it's a challenge only part.

As you can see you could change over a Modena box to stradale spec but the bits are super expensive and it means pulling the box apart...

201217 173885 Crankcase
200211 179510 Pistons
201698 (>78048), 206490 (78049>) 180705 (>73048), 212395 (78049>) RH cyllinder head
201699 (>78048), 206491 (78049>), 185100 (CHALLENGE) 180706 (>73048), 212393 (78049>) LH cylinder head
194432 183340 Complete transmission
197822 Complete bevel set
189791 (6.1mm), 189792 (5.8mm) Ring
197816 Pinion for 1st gear
197818 Pinion for 2nd gear
197821 3rd and 4th driven gear
188461 5th and 6th driven gear
197819 Idle gear for reverse
197820 Reverse gear
212457 (6mm), 188497 (6.25mm) Spacer
201870 Bushing
199782 190005 Complete differential
198531 199055 (REPLACEMENT PART), 185013, 185014 RH Diff shaft/flange
198532 199056 (REPLACEMENT PART), 182322 LH Diff shaft/flange

 

Yes I noticed the part number crossover on a fair few items. I have an enormous spreadsheet. It is most visible on the wiring harnesses as the Modena production cycle got older...

 

Hi Aldous - yes I'm looking at that but it looks a very elegant solution out of the box. I've used mocal water to oil coolers in the past with great success. Although I suppose it's putting the thermal load of the transmission onto the front water rads. On the good side it's controlling the transmission temperature using the engine water jacket control which is pretty neat.

Are we sure it's actually a bad design? What actually fails on them?

 

So this is the offending heat exchanger Aldous is referring to. It's beautifully plumbed - although it suppose where it is it is subject to some pretty hefty vibration. Perhaps that's the issue?
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So that's a slightly tricky one. The answer is that the CS varies the most because the ignition switch and Asr/race mode and window switches etc etc are on the centre console. There are also little things like the ccm wear indicator cables going to the dash that necessitated a change over.

For my car I do have a fair few cs looms but because it's manual and because I've almost decided not to hack any of the centre consoles I think I will stick to the Modena centre console painted gloss black to match the exterior. I'm also likely to use my cs centre tunnel harness to modify and create an extension to put the window switches where the bonnet release and fuel release are now.

So the answer is kind of - where I need to. Fortunately my background is auto electrical so ironically this bit is actually the easiest skill for me.

Finally I'm toying with a challenge dash unit - just need to work out how i would deal with no odometer, no indicator blinker and the fact that I won't have a gear position readout... Don't want it to read neutral or be flashing error all the time. Not sure on this yet...

 

On the wiring here are my findings - again a bit hard to read but you can trace it:

198395 N/A 200828, 178346, 195354, 190047, 183347 Front part connecting cables
197215 (RHD) 197216 (LHD) 200826 (RHD) REPLACES 177243 (RHD), 200827 (LHD) REPLACES 178310 (LHD) Abs wiring harness Different wiring harness to Modena
198676 (LHD ONLY) N/A 183686 (LHD), 172887 (LHD), 200838 (LHD) Pedal device connecting cables Not present on any RHD
196862 (RHD) 196861 (LHD) 180207 (RHD >36945), 181323 (RHD 36946>40324), 186522 (RHD 40325>41709), 189234 (RHD 41710>), 177911 (LHD >34124), 180206 (LHD 34125>36994), 179194 (LHD 36995>41813), 188897 REPLACES 195353 (LHD 41814>46967), 198552 (LHD), 198553 (LHD) Dashboard connection cables Different wiring harness to Modena
196703 N/A 177914, 200847, 188899 Cables for LH rear tunnel connection
196882 N/A 164814, 200830, 178835, 181281, 181282, 200832 Cables for tunnel to console connection
196860 207331 (Includes relay 194909) 207330 (Includes relay 194909), 200829, 181343 Complete cables for F1 transmission
198554 (EUROPE) 198555 (US/CDN/J) 177913 (EUROPE), 198554 (EUROPE), 182200 (USA/CDN), 198555 (USA/CDN) RH Rear tunnel harness Some Modena overlap
201104 198209 201104, 198209, 178709, 183327 Door connection harness Some Modena overlap
200839 (EUROPE) 200659 (EUROPE), 200844 (US/CDN) 200839 (EUROPE), 200659 (EUROPE), 177912 (EUROPE), 200844 (US/CDN), 181112 (US/CDN), 180797 (US/CDN/AUS) Engine compartment RH harness Some Modena overlap
200840 (EUROPE) 200843 (US/CDN/J) 200840 REPLACES 178296 (EUROPE), 200843 REPLACES 182199 (US/CDN/J) Engine compartment LH harness Same as Modena or safe to replace with CS parts
213155 179833, 213155 Complete connection cables motor utilities Some Modena overlap
199873 (EUROPE) 199875 (US/CDN) 199873 REPLACES 192449 (EUROPE), 177781 REPLACES 192449 (EUROPE >44103), 199875 REPLACES 192451 (EUROPE), REPLACES 181117 (US/CDN 44104>) RH side injecton cable loom Some Modena overlap with compatibility
199874 (EUROPE) 199876 (US/CDN) 199874 (EUROPE), 192450 (EUROPE 44104>) REPLACES 177782 (EUROPE <44103), 199876 (US/CDN), 192452 (US/CDN 44104>) REPLACES 181115 (US/CDN <44103) LH side injecton cable loom Some Modena overlap unknown builds
200836 (EUROPE) 200837 (US/CDN) 200836 REPLACES 173429 (EUROPE), 173430 (EUROPE), 200837 (US/CDN), 182208 (US/CDN) Rear lights loom Some Modena overlap unknown builds
200825 N/A 200825, 168843 (US/CDN) Stop lamp cable Only different in US/CDN
182985 N/A 164823 (>36336), 182985 Number plate harness Some Modena overlap known builds

 

So a side by side comparison of manual and f1 strad boxes reveals that the f1 box has some extra brackets and things - and you can see clearly the manual actuation on the side of that box there too at this angle.
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From the other side you can make out more holes in the box where the f1 system plumbs in and the manual had a simple plug blanking it off
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Unfortuately the upper bush in the new box is damaged which I guess will be an arse to swap!
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