Significant yet untraceable coolant leak? | FerrariChat

Significant yet untraceable coolant leak?

Discussion in '360/430' started by arachnyd, Feb 18, 2017.

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  1. arachnyd

    arachnyd Karting

    Feb 5, 2016
    129
    Springboro
    #1 arachnyd, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I went out to my garage and saw this significant coolant leak under my 360. Somewhat scared to drive it, I drove cautiously (and checking a few times the coolant levels and for leaks) to the shop to fix it.

    The shop says they pressure tested it and visually inspected it- they see no leaks. They did 12 hours of labor including headers/cats and the car sits in the shop for several weeks. No leaks show up below it, so they come to the conclusion that "there must have just been some residual coolant from the last coolant change". Two of the pictures are from the first time, one is from the second, so its almost the same amount.

    Now I'm also a little weirded out by the color, because I use G-05, which isn't green tinged... however, the SECOND time, it doesn't have much if any of the green tinge and looks more like G-05.

    So I drive it back from the shop, drives great, life is good. Two weeks later I come out to my garage and what do I see? A new coolant leak (although this color looks better)

    I'm totally at a loss. I was about to buy a scissor lift to inspect it myself, but it doesn't look like the ferrari will clear the one I was looking at.

    Note I live in winter wonderland (ohio) so its more or less garaged for the winter. I've only driven it twice in 2 months, to and from the shop, but weather is looking up!
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  2. Mickster

    Mickster Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2015
    608
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Mikael Andersson
    Residual coolant? That much? No way!

    From the point where it seems to come from, I would guess somewhere around water pump.
     
  3. rizzo308

    rizzo308 F1 Rookie
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    Sep 12, 2004
    2,693
    Perth, Australia
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    riggio
    Rip pass side seat out remove nessasery trim and inspection cover there u can rule out the w pump that's the first thing I would do. If it is w pump I would change out the new bearing also. Gud Luk mate
     
  4. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    I have the same issue, but my PPI did say one hose had a bit of a leak. There are 2 hoses at the front, a delivery and a return. I think they have a tendency to leak. That looks a bit sever for a water pump. Get a set of ramps and get under there, it may be difficult to see from the access panel because of how far down it is.
     
  5. rizzo308

    rizzo308 F1 Rookie
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    Sep 12, 2004
    2,693
    Perth, Australia
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    riggio
    From the access panel u can c the thermostat housing everything if it's leaking around top/front of engine u will def be able to see it. Remove panel hit it with pressure tester if u have one or run engine build up some pressure u will find it.
     
  6. HIO Silver

    HIO Silver Formula Junior

    Mar 12, 2016
    497
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Alonso C.
    Don't need a lift per se.... build some " wheel cribs"....jack up the car, and place the cribs under the rear tires.

    Cribs... https://www.amazon.com/Race-Ramps-RR-WC-10-Wheel-Crib/dp/B003ZAGPWO

    You do have a (pump) jack, right?

    ... could someone be playing a joke on ya? Maybe dumping some coolant under your F-car to make ya worry?

    I got a good one if ya know someone with a pickup....... install a long zip tie to your pal's driveshaft and leave it long so the tang slaps the underside of the cab or bed when in motion. Oh you should see the expression on their face.
     
  7. arachnyd

    arachnyd Karting

    Feb 5, 2016
    129
    Springboro
    I'm looking back over my PPI, albeit quite a long time ago now and did say there was some very minor seepage around the water pump, so I'm leaning towards this as the culprit, although there wasn't enough to determine if it was the water pump for sure and they didn't note it last time I was in. Not sure why I didn't connect the dots.

    You'd think a water pump would leak while driving though... if the engine is running, I get no drippage at all. Odd. Almost like I ONLY get it AFTER a long drive,

    When you say you have the "Same Issue", with that much? If so, maybe I'll address the hoses and their connections first.
     
  8. arachnyd

    arachnyd Karting

    Feb 5, 2016
    129
    Springboro
    I'll do that at the same time I'm putting it up on the lift. Its not leaking under pressure/when running which is the odd thing. Every time I've lost a water pump, its leaking under operation and often not at all when its not. Seems backwards.. haha! But things break in mysterious ways.
     
  9. arachnyd

    arachnyd Karting

    Feb 5, 2016
    129
    Springboro
    I wish someone was playing a joke on me... but I'm the only person with keys to this garage, and I even have an alarm system. I doubt someone would "break in" just to play a joke.

    We offroad jeeps too, so I'm tempted to play that truck on one of the jeep guys. Thats a good one. Only issue is I've long thought cars were off limits for pranks, so I'm almost tempted to do it to my own car and have a buddy back it off the trailer or something and accuse them of breaking it. Could be fun.
     
  10. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    Yes, I have quite the puddle on the garage floor and haven't been able to get under there to diagnose yet. Plus it's been kinda chilly. My reservoir was bone dry also. Luckily I have only driven it a couple times since I got it at the end of december.
     
  11. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
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    Tim Keseluk
    #11 2NA, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There are a few possibilities. The best approach is to put the car on a lift, remove the underpanel and have a look. There really isn't a good way to see anything with everything covered. Water pump is a possibility and not a difficult fix. A bigger problem would be a heat exchanger leak that would result in coolant overfilling the gearbox and leaking from the gearbox breather. If this happens, coolant and gear oil become comingled. The gearbox won't last long that way.
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  12. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    Curt
    1. Do you use regular power steering fluid or pentosin CHF, which is green?

    2. You gots to get off the bottom pan to see where its coming from. I use a set of black plastic ramps to get the car up. You can get the pan off with them. predict a bottom clamp is loose on the hoses to the front radiators.
     
  13. arachnyd

    arachnyd Karting

    Feb 5, 2016
    129
    Springboro
    I haven't actually changed the PS fluid, so I'm not sure what is in there. Definitely something else to look at that I didn't think of.

    I'm pretty swamped at the moment, but I'm hoping to get to it this coming weekend.

    Thank you- and everyone else- for the pointers and thoughts. If nothing else you've given me some more confidence to dig in there.
     
  14. nsx_2k

    nsx_2k Rookie

    Apr 7, 2009
    36
    arachnyd,
    Interestingly, my car does the same exact thing! It seems that if I drive/operate it during cooler temps, then let it cool down in the garage it belches up a small volume of coolant. I'm in MN so the temp differential from ambient air & the engine is quite great during winter.

    I pressure tested my cooling system and it was fine (no discernible leaks). I checked the coolant to see if any oil contamination from a leaking/failed heat exchanger. Nothing (fortunately). I placed a scope into the region of the water pump and couldn't see anything obviously wet but this was not ideal or definitive for I have yet to figure out how to properly gain access to the service port/windows behind the seats. What I did notice was that when I opened the coolant reservoir after 3 months of no operation (in the middle of winter), it was oddly still under pressure! After cleaning up the coolant, I haven't seen any more leaking.

    One thing that I was thinking that may be failing is the coolant cap. I've seen posts by Rifledriver stating that the coolant caps fail after a few years. Mine is 16 years old and likely needs to be replaced.
     
  15. Jana

    Jana F1 Veteran

    Mar 4, 2015
    9,872
    Mine did that a couple weeks ago. It was the heat exchanger. You don't want to play around with that. I had no gearbox damage, but I was lucky.
     
  16. torresmd

    torresmd Karting

    Aug 14, 2010
    104
    My car is in the shop for a coolant leak and it turns out it was the heat exchanger. How do they know if the gear box was damaged or not?
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    Flush it a bunch of times, put in new 75W-90 and see if it works. About the only way, short of a teardown.
     
  18. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    Tim Keseluk
    Yep, it's a huge mess to clean up.
     
  19. torresmd

    torresmd Karting

    Aug 14, 2010
    104
    OK great! My mechanic seems pretty hopeful that the gearbox will be OK. Keeping my fingers crossed.
     
  20. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
    2,747
    Boston, MA
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    John E. Kenney
    Get a look at the underpanel too. That will hide things in between the engine and the ground. Also curious about oil cooler but that should only have oil in it, correct? Heat exchanger for gearbox sound right. Good luck.
     
  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    If it is the water pump seal weeping, you should see lump of dried coolant where the shaft seal is. It can leak small drips of hot coolant and just flash off, hence you see no sign of a leak when running. My rav 4 was leaking for months but only needed to top up a cupfull a month until we got it changed .
    If you have been pushing the car so the coolant has got very hot, then put in garage it might have found its way past the seal to relieve the pressure, hence your puddle
     

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