F1 gearbox wont select gear when stationary | FerrariChat

F1 gearbox wont select gear when stationary

Discussion in '360/430' started by billy.gif, Apr 15, 2017.

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  1. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    I installed a battery tender so I cut the "Master Switch" to OFF. After I'd done with installation I left the car to sat for few hours with "Mastery Switch" ON. Then I came to car, started it and I forgot to let it do ECU "re-learn" thing.

    Car started well, all OK, no hesitation or anything else. BUT ... It wont select gear when in stationary. When trying R it wont do anything, when trying 1st it tries 3 times to engage gear (the car judders, you can clearly feel the F1 system / clutch trying to engage) but after three attempts it wont do anything.

    Car was parked near a decline so my friend pushed the car a bit and after reaching fast walking phase I tried to engage 1st and it worked. But again - after coming to complete stop and choosing N, it wont go to 1st (nor R). When coming to a stop and keeping 1st gear engaged, car will start moving just fine.

    I tried the "master switch OFF" three times with proper calibration (waiting 15-20 sec after ignition on before starting the car) but didn't help. Only thing the "master switch OFF" will do is that after turning it back ON, the car shows 1st gear engaged. But again, when starting the car it will go to N and wont select 1st.

    As the outside temperature was around -4C or 25 fahrenheit I thought that its just cold oil. But even after 15 miles of driving and doing plenty of gear changes both in "normal" and "sport" modes - as soon as I come to stop and choose N - it wont let me select 1st.

    There's no F1 warning light, no CEL, nothing - everything shows OK.

    I bought car 4 days ago and during the PPI the clutch wear was 68,1%. The car has latest "normal" TCU unit fitted & calibrated 3 years ago.
     
  2. honda.vfr

    honda.vfr Karting

    Jun 22, 2012
    134
    Ostrava, CZ (EU)
    Full Name:
    Milan Pukl
    Seems like worn clutch to me = not fully disengaging ..
     
  3. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    794
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    MD
    Most likely it is the Clutch Throwout Bearing... It is probably leaking and not disengaging fully... It needs replacement...
     
  4. djempire

    djempire Formula Junior

    Apr 30, 2012
    613
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Serf
    Check the F1 fluid. Located inside the rear right side panel.
     
  5. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    UPDATE:

    When engine running car wont select any gear. System clearly tries, car and rpm judders, but after 3 attempts it fails. When just ignition ON but engine off, car will cycle trough gears without any issues.

    So clearly issue comes with engine idling.
     
  6. Mel Spillman

    Mel Spillman Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2012
    639
    Sugar Land, Tx
    Bad or broken Magnet on clutch position sensor?????
     
  7. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    As soon as a shop will take a look I'll post here.
     
  8. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,251
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Jam
    Had the same exact issue when my car was F1, it's a bad throw out bearing on mine.
     
  9. robertpel9

    robertpel9 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 28, 2004
    491
    Orange County CA
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Does the gear indicator flash??

    I replaced my battery a month ago and it would not go in gear afterwards. I have to go through the reset process, make sure i selected Reverse first annd then 1st and then all was fine and has been since. My Ferrari Mechanic said thats standard reset protocol for the 360 after a battery swap.

    I find it hard to believe its your F1 system if all was fine until you disconnected the battery.
     
  10. scuderia09

    scuderia09 Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sep 6, 2007
    1,045
    #10 scuderia09, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
    Check the brake light switch , are you applying brake pedal when trying to change gears and check pressure on F1 pump maybe a weak pump ??
     
  11. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,251
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Jam
    It will not be the brake switch. As per symptom, the F1 sounds like its trying to engage. If brake switch it won't even try at all.
     
  12. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    8,753
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    When you come to a stop then lift your foot off the brake, what happens? Does the car creep forward a little? I am guessing that it does. That means either your PIS is wrong, your throwout bearing is bad, or some other issue causing the clutch to not fully disengage. That will prevent selection of a gear; R is the first to go. When you push it it is closer to a rev match so it makes the change.
     
  13. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,251
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Jam
    This ^^^^
     
  14. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    The gear indicator does NOT flash. Only thing the system does it "judders" a bit when it tries to select forward gear (total of 3 times, then it gives up). When trying to select Reverse, absolutely nothing happens - no "beep", no juddering, nothing.

    I actually had shut main cut off switch OFF a mere 2 days earlier for overnight (as I was scared about the battery voltage) and didn't do any "gearbox reset process" then, still the gearbox worked just fine. Only thing I did at that time was the ECU re-learn thing: "turn the ignition on and wait for 10-20sec before starting the car".
     
  15. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    Hmm... As I mentioned, when all this initially happened, we were able to get the car moving by pushing it like you would do a "hill start" with a manual car. As soon as car was rolling with enough speed, the gearbox selected 1st gear.

    I clearly recall that when I was limping back home (few miles middle of night), I really had to stood on the brakes at intersections (with 1st gear selected) or the car would really want to move forward.

    Now I obviously can't try it as the car is at the dealer. Actually they called earlier today and said they cannot access to the gearbox ECU / cannot read the gearbox fault codes, wtf is happening?
     
  16. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,251
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Jam
    Exactly the same symptom as mine. Does the "judders" gets louder and louder?

    If so, your PIS is out of adjustment (hope this is the case) or the Throwout bearing is out (hopefully not).
     
  17. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    The trusted independent looked the gearbox ECU and found one error code (will add it later), reseted it, did some sort of re-learn to it and adjusted PIS. Now the ECU wont throw any errors and during 10min test drive everything worked.

    But this cant be right, a error code will make the gearbox not choose gear even it tries? I mean a electronic gremlin will make gearbox ECU to not choose a gear? For my experience the fault clearly felt like mechanical (gearbox tries and tries and tries and then gives up).
     
  18. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,251
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Jam
    Same thing with mine. There's a code and then the shop reset it. Then it came back after 10ish miles of driving. Got me stuck in the middle of the road again.

    It was then diagnosed as a bad TOB. I even have the photo of the TOB somewhere when we took it out.

    If you driven the car around 30 miles after the reset and it didn't come back then consider yourself lucky. In the meantime, have a AAA (or any tow service) card handy.
     
  19. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    So much thank you for your inputs so far! Really appreciated!

    I was really sceptic about the explanation but I have limit amount of mechanical experteese so I accepted what the shop said. They said that car needs to be driven and follow what happens and if (now when) the gearbox dies again, the investigation will move onto mechanical components.

    Fortunately there's "cost free tows" included a certain car insurance packages. But the humiliation, oh the humiliation in my (very socialistic) European unnamed country where's everyone envies everyone and joys if something happens to someone more wealthy than they are.
     
  20. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,251
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Jam
    Your welcome. Anytime, the community is here to help and share knowledge.

    Let's hope it stops there and no need to "move onto mechanical components". That will cost a good chunk.

    Same here, most folks took photos / videos instead of helping. I said to myself, "here we go again, I hope I get some royalties if the video goes viral". ;)
     
  21. daveyator

    daveyator Formula Junior

    Jun 10, 2014
    292
    Yucaipa, CA
    Full Name:
    Dave B
    Mine was bad too with the EXACT same symptoms of this thread.
     
  22. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    So much more thank you for these replies. Because of these I insisted the shop to perform a decent (~1 hour) test drive within the city (lots of Neutral usage) before I'd collect the car and guess what happened, they got stranded with exact same issues; gearbox wont select any gear.

    As far as I understood now (finally) they're going to perform a surgery to her.

    Without you guys I would have collected the car and got stranded and yet again have my time wasted and the costs of getting back home etc.
     
  23. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,251
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Jam
    Your very welcome. Keep us posted of the diagnosis.
     
  24. billy.gif

    billy.gif Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2017
    259
    Finland
    #24 billy.gif, May 9, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Finally the repair shop got the gearbox removed and there were a metal part which has been torned apart from the "clutch assembly (?)". Please see pictures for better information as I kind of lack deeper mechanical knowledge.

    Is this normal wear or tear? The shop didn't say anything about worn / sticky clutch throw out bearing which is also visible at one of the pics. Is there any way to test or check the condition of this bearing while the gearbox is removed? They said that the car needs a complete new clutch kit from local Ferrari Dealer. Does this kit include a new Throw out Bearing? Is there any trusted aftermarket (preferably European due the inport taxes from US) sites as the "official Ferrari Dealer tax" especially in our country is huge.

    Help really needed, worst case scenario being that due the nature of the broken part, I might end up paying alone the whole process of searching problem, finding it and repairing it. Its the complexity of our local "consumer protection law".
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  25. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    well first id wanna see the broken part. I see the pieces laying there but i cant see where it came from. You may as well at his point replace the complete clutch. You can probably get a better price on a complete clutch kit from Ricambi America. Id also buy a Hill Engineering throw out bearing from them if its not included in the kit..
     

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