Combining 360 key and fob into 430 key | FerrariChat

Combining 360 key and fob into 430 key

Discussion in '360/430' started by derekmines, May 5, 2017.

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  1. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    For years now I've wanted to stop having to carry key and fob around with me, thinking that the later 430 solution of having an all-in-one remote key would be so much neater.

    A few years ago I looked at trying to cram the circuitry from the 360 fob into a 430 key but it was a non-starter.

    I've recently been talking to a local micro-electronics specialist company who inform me that they've done stuff like this before and it really isn't that complicated to reverse engineer a 360 fob and then rebuild it onto a new PCB to fit the 430 remote key.

    However.... the cost of doing this as a one off just for me is probative so I'm posting here to see if any other 360 owners (worldwide, they can deal with the 2 different frequencies) would be interested, basically the more interest, the lower the cost.

    20 seems to be about the minimum which would run about $600 each plus the cost of the new remote key... take that to 40 users and the cost drops to around $300

    The company are going to produce a proper costing for me early next week and confirm exactly what they'd need to make it work but just for some indicative interest I thought I'd post up here now.

    No commitment, but would anyone else be interested?
     
  2. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 1, 2013
    1,751
    Western Mass
    Full Name:
    Raimondo
    I would consider signing up for this.


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  3. Shinigami

    Shinigami Formula Junior
    Owner

    Aug 2, 2005
    465
    Gland Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Heikki
    It would be a nice mod. I guess it means they would have to take apart the chips on the PCB of the donor fob and render the old one useless? Would there also be the cost of the 430 key (sourced through eBay or a dealer?).
     
  4. Bwtyler85

    Bwtyler85 Karting

    Oct 25, 2015
    149
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    Ben Tyler
    For sure. I'm keen

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  5. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    15,916
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    I find this interesting as well..
     
  6. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    I'm going to meet with the electronics chap next week and firm up from him exactly what he'll need.
    As part of an earlier project to obtain spare keys, fobs and pin code I spent a lot of time researching how the 360 locking system works so have sent him all that knowledge, plus photos of the keys, fobs and internals for him to look at over the weekend.

    If this looks like a go-er then I shall buy a 430 key and sacrifice one of my remotes for him to see what works.

    My biggest concern is the rolling code aspect and how this will work with multiple owners and multiple remotes but he thinks that's not an issue.

    I'll keep this thread updated, feel free to ask 360 owning friends / repost etc, as noted, the more owners, the cheaper it gets.
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,051
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #7 tazandjan, May 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Derek- Be advised the US and UK 360 fobs are different frequencies, US 315 MHz and UK 433.9 MHz, so take that into account if American owners buy into your build.

    Be also advised Specialized ECU Repair in the States has already modernized the old style fobs with new cases, new electrical boards and lithium ion battery power, but not a built in key. They offered sets on E-Bay recently. Everything is new, so these should be much more reliable. You might contact them, too.

    Set of 3 Ferrari Keyless Entry Remote Key Fobs 355 360 456 550 575 New, Upgraded | eBay

    How do you intend to handle the immobilizer code issue? Just copy the EEPROM readings on all three fobs? That would mean a set of three would be $900- $1800, getting up there, or just one fancy one per set? I assume the key portion would be steel, like the original keys.
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  8. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #8 FlyingHaggisRacing, May 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. Jolt

    Jolt Karting
    Owner

    Sep 23, 2016
    66
    Bend, OREGON
    Full Name:
    Jeronimo Meyers
    Interested.
     
  10. martinofoz

    martinofoz Rookie

    Dec 1, 2012
    15
    Aussie
    Interested also
     
  11. wong360

    wong360 Rookie

    Mar 14, 2015
    31
  12. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    OK, will post more information on this thread once the electronics chap and I have conferred!
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,051
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Derek- Make sure he understands about the alarm system and the requirement for rolling codes for the immobilizer.
     
  14. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    First two things I mentioned, the rolling code and the 2 different frequencies... I think they're getting a little fired up at the opportunity, they've asked me to go and meet with them later this week / early next.
     
  15. Shinigami

    Shinigami Formula Junior
    Owner

    Aug 2, 2005
    465
    Gland Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Heikki
    If you're able to get this done without the worry of losing one of the remotes in the process, then I'm also in. Or maybe you could get a copy done as I've seen here a few times.

    If you find out the full price including the key (which I could then get cut as required), and it remains decent, count me in as well (and I guess you will be finding out this info in due time ;) ).

    Maybe it's possible to do the same for the 550/575/355's if their keys are similar? You could ask around and get more backers to the project.
     
  16. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    So I have a face to face meeting with them on Thursday afternoon, watch this space.....
     
  17. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    The guys i mentioned from Alibaba - they can sell the key shells (no pcb) as well.
     
  18. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    So by way of a little update.

    I met with the electronics company and we talked through the way the system worked and the issues that they can foresee, we took apart one of my fobs and he analysed the components on the board and the power cell.

    I have now ordered a 430 key shell whilst he is researching updated power sources, once my shell has arrived (scheduled for around 3 weeks time) we shall meet again and see if this project has legs!
     
  19. Jolt

    Jolt Karting
    Owner

    Sep 23, 2016
    66
    Bend, OREGON
    Full Name:
    Jeronimo Meyers
    Can't wait!
     
  20. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2010
    1,189
    CA & DC
    I will be anxiously watching this space !
     
  21. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 12, 2013
    5,041
    CA Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Steve
    They probably already know this, but you might want to mention to them that the Ferrari 360 uses the same Bosch security system as the Porsche 993. I mention this because there's probably more leaked data and technical documentations from Porsche than Ferrari.

    This is old '80s technology. KeeLoq encryption based on a dedicated Microchip Technology chip, something like an HSC300 which supersedes the older chip on the 360 FOBs.
     
  22. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    Thank you for that info, I've passed it along to them just in case.
    When I was there last week there was much examining of the internals of my fob under a microscope so they may already have the info as you say, but too much detail is far better than none at all.
     
  23. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Just a question....
    What's their plan in regard to the 64k worth of codes in a fob ?
     
  24. derekmines

    derekmines Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2013
    284
    Melksham, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek
    I believe that the plan at the moment is to re-use the existing fob innards on a new circuit board shaped to fit inside the 430 key using a new, smaller style power source.

    I shall know more detail after the next meeting, once they've had time to think it through fully.
     
  25. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368

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