360 market values

Thanks! I'm glad to have a thread on this topic that doesn't have a confusing title. Here are Hagerty's values as of the beginning of this year (pretty close to your estimates, Phil):

2003 Ferrari 360 Base

$104,000 . . . . . #1 Concours
$88,000 . . . . . #2 Excellent
$74,000 . . . . . #3 Good
$64,000 . . . . . #4 Fair

2003 Ferrari 360 Spider

$121,000 . . . . . #1 Concours
$106,000 . . . . . #2 Excellent
$94,000 . . . . . #3 Good
$79,000 . . . . . #4 Fair

2003 Ferrari 360 Spider F1

$108,000 . . . . . #1 Concours
$86,100 . . . . . #2 Excellent
$75,300 . . . . . #3 Good
$64,000 . . . . . #4 Fair

All three categories state: "Value Adjustments -- +$50,000 for 6-spd on cpe. Lack of verifiable owner and service history can greatly affect value."

They have some great information on the 360. I encourage you to visit their web site, if you are interested: Hagerty.com

As I have written in a previous post, I'm not sure what the difference between the last two categories is intended to be. Similar pricing information can be found for all years of the 360. If you join and download the PDF for each car, it will have a table showing how the price has changed over the past five years. Generally, the price went down from 2012 until about 2015, when it appears it begins to creep up. Hagerty's April 2017 Value report lists the 360 as number 5 on its list of the most rapidly appreciating classic cars.

Conditions Ratings at --
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/Classifications-and-Conditions

 

If you are not familiar with it, you may wonder where Hagerty gets its values. They state:

"To determine this value, Hagerty analyzes sources including auctions, dealer sales and peer-to-peer sales. We also note condition, history, optional equipment, quality of restoration, degree of documentation, and sales venue, just to name a few.

Also incorporated into vehicle values are inventory, demand, recent trends of similar vehicles, movement within related market segments, and general directions of the vehicle market overall."

You can find more detail on their web site at:

https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/About-our-prices

 

My explanation about Hagerty wasn't directed to you, Phil, but to others who might not be as familiar with their data.

I also like Keith Martin, but his data is limited to auction data, as I recall. Hagerty seems to try to reach more broadly. The explanation on the web link above is an interesting one. They don't list more recent cars, however. The 430 is not in their data, for example, at least not online.

 

Aldous Voice gives the June 2017 Average Asking Price for 360s in the UK as 82,551 pounds sterling (about $104,000). I suspect most of you are familiar with this great web site:

https://aldousvoice.com/2017/06/04/ferrari-360-market-watch-june-2017/

 

That's my biggest problem with the Hagerty data -- I don't really know what they are including in the different categories. My guess (which may be wrong) is that the Base is all coupes, both F1 and Gated, and that the Spider is all Spiders, both F1 and Gated, and that the Spider F1 is just that -- only the F1 Spiders. But I'm just guessing; it isn't at all clear to me.

 

Base is coupe, Gated is listed at the bottom +50,000$ last time I checked

 

Thats a hefty premium over F1. Maybe the reality is between 30k-50k depending on the mileage! But the demand for 3 pedal cars seems to be a growing trend. In Europe too.

 

Its interesting that a "good" 360 spider F1 is valued at 75k when in the real world that's top of the market. If you manage 70k+ take the money and run. You can value all you want but they're only worth what they actually sell for and its not those numbers with the possible exceptions of the gateds.

 

I actually feel really lucky about the difference in price between the gated and F1 models.

I wanted a F1 and I 'saved' loads of money over the gated version.

 

If you're trying to sell a silver car there's going to be a different set of offers than a Rosso car. A red Ferrari is the quintessential Ferrari. I'm not saying you but.. Owners can't expect to buy a car like grigio because it's "not the typical color" and then expect to get top dollar when they sell it. Again just saying..
The Hargerty data doesn't differentiate on color IIRC.

 

While many newer Ferrari's come in lots of colors (at a show last weekend with 7 other Ferrari's, only three were red, one Grigio Silverstone, one black, one Azzuro and mine), the resale red still seems to hold true with these cars.

That being said, I think my Grigio Alloy 360 looks spectacular and get compliments all the time on the color.

 

From a 2015 article in CarsGuide, quoting Ferrari Australia boss Herbert Appleroth:

"Red is still strong but not like it was. Rosso Corsa is now (the choice for) about 35 per cent of our cars. Traditionally the V8 sports cars have been very strong in red. The California was the first model that changed a lot, with metallics.

"Grey, or different tones of silver, are more popular in the V12 cars, the F12 and FF. People are going more conservative with the GT models and being a bit more brave, and going away from red, in the sports cars.

"We're now seeing 65 per cent of our cars in grey or silver."

See -- https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/red-no-longer-the-favourite-ferrari-colour-34750

I personally like silver on the 360. Whether values of the 360 begin to change as color preference for new cars change or not is impossible to predict, I think. We will just need to wait and see. I'm sure there will always be a market for red Ferraris!

 

i agree that cars are only worth what they actually sell for, but I disagree that those numbers are not the Hagerty numbers. If you go to post 3 above, you can see the explanation and links to where Hagerty gets its data. They are collecting the price at which cars actually sell, not asking prices as others collect.

I also recognize that a number of folks on Ferrarichat have a sense that the value of these cars is lower than these numbers. One reason for that, I suspect is that Hagerty appears to include sales by dealers, which I suspect are generally significantly higher than sales by private individuals (although I think Hagerty tries to track both). Also, I, at least, always think my car is "Excellent" when in fact it is probably only "Good". I see it with an owner's eye, and tend to overlook its problems. But maybe that's just me!

 

It kind of pisses me off a bit. I have a red manual car so I should be pleased (though a sky rocket 39k ). I used to own a Giallo/Nero F355 and believe IMO it to be the best colour for the F355. I also confess to enjoy looking at Giallo 360's.
However the number of times I was informed Italian cars (especially Ferrari) have to be red.

I have no issue with what any are worth, you buy cheap you sell cheap. I think 3 pedal car prices in the US seem steep. There is a difference here but I do not think it is quite so bad. All that said Ferraris here are now once again exclusively for the more wealthy.
The cheapest Ferrari advertised on PistonHeads currently is a nero 1982 Mondial for £27.5k and it is LHD.

 

This '99 Giallo was the cheapest 3-pedal that I could find in cars.com right now with 90k asking:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/693769440/overview/

It's ridiculous how many dealerships list their cars as "6-speed manual" and when you look at the interior pictures, you'll see it's an F1. This is quite misleading IMHO.

And no Rosso Corsa Modena 3-pedals for sale! Or perhaps one at 110k but no pictures. Also checked eBay, no red Modenas with 6MT there either. Market is dry?

 

I think this is a worldwide issue! Though technically on F355, 360 and F430 it is an (computer) automated manual gearbox without a torque convertor.

 

An F1 360 is the bargain of the century these days. You can choose between literally a dozen of them for 60K. A nice air-cooled mid 80's Porsche is the same price.... society as a whole will catch on at some point and realize these reliable and affordable to maintain cars are a steal right now.

 

The only rub that I see once everyone catches on lies in the fourth buyer + in the exotic world. He doesn't have the money to maintain it, but can buy it. He purchases it for below the 1/3 fully depreciated cost and can't afford parts for it or the service for the car. Gets in to be a baller but escapes at the first repair.. rinse and repeat. Leonardos and SD2's are still spensive and parts even on Ricambi are expensive.

So you know the routine.. it's the car (any used high end exotic esp Mercedes and BMWs) that lies on the dealers lot in the shady part of town that looks OK on the outside but needs shocks, a few ECU's are also bad, had a leak from the cooling system, interior looks OK but every knob has paint rubbed off it and the leather has massive wear and/or a tear. Don't look under the dash or hood because all the electrical wiring is taped in multicolor.

 

I agree the 360 is probably the best value car, it's a bit like a 348 in a way, not as loved as a 355 / 430. Prices of early 360's in HK are silly cheap - but as said above the lack/poor maintenance over the years is the killer.

But, it's a great do it yourself car, it's aluminium so the dreaded rust you'll get on a early cars is not a problem, just all the fasteners rust. The more effort you put in in finding parts the cheaper they seem to get and the engine is robust when properly sorted.

The key issue i think is until a cheap diagnostic tool that's easy to use comes along it can be a pain and/or expensive to look after them. Ironically the F1 is not really the problem the myth says it is - it has some very simple predictable faults mostly and when it's working it's great.

So i think it's a good buy if you can handle the restoration - which most will need as they are ~15yrs old now.

So let's keep quiet about how good a car it is - so proper enthusiasts can afford them.

 

Like me! I pick mine up tomorrow in CT and will drive it back to Michigan, 850 miles!

 

So what is with Hagerty's values not representing the "slump" in Ferrari prices that all the dealers, etc keep telling me about. I've got a 2000 Red/Tan Ferrari 360 Gated 6 Speed car with 27k miles in excellent condition that I'm looking to sell. According to Hagerty its worth $134,000 ($84k + $50k for the 6 speed manual transmission). So lets assume I'm just seeing my car better than it is, and its actually just "good" on Hagerty's ratings scale. Even then it's worth $110,000 ($60k + $50k for the 6 speed manual transmission).

I'm asking $110k for my car, and every time I talk to a dealer or someone in the trade they look at me like I've got 3 heads for asking over $100k for the car. They say Ferraris are in a slump, and 6 months ago I could have gotten $125k for the car, but not now.

So who is right, Hagerty, or these dealers? I've had dealers tell me an excellent red/tan 360 with a gated six speed is an $85k car! For me that is F1 territory. So really, who is right?

 

Split the difference.

I love my 360 spider manual - LOVE.