Inconsistencies in my Scuderia's shifting patterns...

I'm having the exact same problem in mine. I've had it into the shop several times and they give me the explanation that it's the software. That's great if it's the software, but it seems as if something is "dragging" and definitely not running as it should, especially in the 2nd to 3rd gear change. There's enough mechanical magic and low tolerances in place back there, that there's ample room for a minor mistake to blossom into a failure. I'm not buying their explanation - it's not working as it should or originally did, but the best I can come up with is not quantitative.

It feels as if the clutch is being let out very slowly and then takes some time to "catch". This is all, of course, happening in less than a second, but I can feel it. The sharpness of the shifts just aren't there until you hit the 3-4 change, but at that point you are already so far over the speed limit, that satisfying your curiosity on a test run just to validate your thoughts can get you into trouble. I've ridden with the tech to describe it, we've both felt it, and then I received "the software does....." speech. I understand, but something's up. It could be a feature of the transmission, but I don't remember it shifting like this initially.

At how many miles did yours start? Mine began at about mile 600. I've got nearly 3X that now, and it's not going away. There has not been any abuse on the tranny. I picked up mine in March '09.

 

Have you tried the same procedure with CST off to make sure to rule out traction control engaging in the lower gears to prevent excessive wheelspin?

 

I drive it in "Race" under normal driving and have tried it in each of the settings to see if that affected it. It is persistent in all cases. Every so often i can get a good 2-3 shift, but it is not consistent. (like maybe 1 in 6, 1 in 7 tries).

 

DAMN! Sorry to hear guys. F1 issues are the worst. Hard to diagnose, hard to repeat on a test drive with a tech, and hard to fix.

I had issues with my F1 system 5 days after taking delivery of a brand spankin' new 06' 430.
It took 2 weeks to fix........I waited 40 years to buy a Ferrari and it ended up in the shop for 2 friggin weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!a bleeder screw for the hydraulic fluid was the culprit!!!

 

Hey there Ape. What type of behavior did yours exhibit? Does it sound like what we've got going on in ours?

I didn't like what I heard - it gets much worse before we can properly analyze it. It didn't show anything on the OBD when they hooked it up. How could it? You can't measure the "feeling" of something.

The problem was that I could repeat it with the tech, and he couldn't couldn't recognize it. The whole thing happens in less than half a second.

 

Not sure if this will help, but I found this out with my 04 575. If I drove the car for awhile in traffic, not pushing it near readline, when I starting driving it again that way, it took about 10 minutes to start shifting right. I have the same issues when I drive that way in the Gallardo, I came to the conclusion the car reacts to how hard you push it.

 

Thanks Carnut. Do you get the feeling like something is being unduly worn down when that happens?

The issue with how hard you are driving is clear. The issue is the 2-3 gear shift in which it feels like something is trying to catch in the transmission, but doesn't. I can feel when the shifts aren't as crisp when I'm not pushing it - that's totally understandable and it doesn't feel like anything out of the usual, but they certainly don't drag. When it is being pushed, imagine driving a manual transmission with your foot heavy on the gas, and your left foot refusing to fully come off the clutch under throttle. You just don't do that, but that's what the F1 transmission feels like it's doing.

 

Keep this in mind, this is only from my experience, but I think that F1 (or egear) seem to respond to the way you drive, and what I have found the harder you drive them, the better they respond. The Scud was made to be driven hard, I doubt that Michael was doing 50 on the test track, so let the car do what it was designed to do, it will reward you if you do

 

And if you want the fastest shifts, do not feather the gas pedal, push it down.

 

You can definitely feel the faster shifts the further and harder you have the gas pedal nailed. This issue is happening under hard acceleration and nailing the throttle. It gets it right about one in 7 times. It occurs when the RPMS are high, have been quickly rising, and continue to rise. My foot is on the gas, and the throttle is not being feathered. I know how the car responds to those types of shifts, and those are consistent.

The biggest concern is the inconsistency. When it's works, it's fantastic. 3rd to 4th gear shifts happen as expected every single time. The 2nd to 3rd shifts do not. I don't believe it's a driver's error, but a mechanical issue that is difficult to pin down, let alone identify.

Any other Scuderia owners have this occurence?

 

I have exactely the same problem in my scuderia.

I drive it also a lot on the track and quiet hard as it s fitted with some trackday tires and parts and it s even worse on the track when warm but still it does it even when accelerating hard and shifting at high rpm on the street.

I ended up changing the complete clutch kit as at the end it was sometimes shifting in neutral by itself with flywheel senso bearing etc and a ediff valve and made them do the relearn a few times and it was better and no more shifting in neutral but still many times it s not shifting as it should.

I asked to adjust the pis slightly lower but it do not change much.

It feels as if the release bearing is not fast enough or if the acceleration of the car is slighly delayed to wait for the clutch to engage properly.

I don t know if the pump or the accumulator can be the problem or maybe the actuator but I don t think it s a software problem but more some mechanical problem that maybe is just because of something working not as good as a new car.

I asked if it s possible to replace completely the f1 fluid but they say that they can only make a air bleed that will not replace all the fluid.

I would like to know if maybe the release bearing is not greased as it should.

 

From the Scuderia manual, for what it's worth (and I quote):

The F1-SuperFast 2 gearshifting is active only under the following conditions:
- driving mode control switch set to SP ORT, RACE, CT OFF or CST OFF;
- engine at > 5000 RPM and accelerator pedal at > 40%;
- no traction control;
- engine water temperature > 70 °C (158 °F) and engine oil temperature > 15 °C (59 °F).

A message on the multifunction display will inform the driver that F1-SuperFast 2 gearshifting is available.

So when the "dragging" happens are you sure your car is meeting all of these criteria?

 

With my Scud it's not unusual that my rear wheels slip a bit at full throttle when I change the gears from 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3. Thats why for "inspired" driving a always use the CT mode or the CST mode if I know the roads.

The behavior of the F1 gearbox change when the clutch wears. So every 3'000 km I asked to optimize the PIS. After that (like 1 week ago in my case), the gear changes are definitively faster, at any conditions.

 

If I'm at full throttle in "race" mode, and shift in the higher RPM's, I get the superfast shifts every time. The only time I get any lag in shifts is when I am in lower RPM's, and then I'm usually trying to save the clutch anyways.

I don't know what software is running or how to check that. I would suggest resetting the electronics and going from there to see if any changes take place. (Could be done by turning the battery cut-off in the front boot).

What mode are you driving in? Mine never leaves "race".

 

But i have noticed that on WOT acceleration from first gear, there is a noticeable lag in shift time shifting up to second, and then to third. Once in third gear, the shifts take place in 60 milliseconds as they are supposed to.

++++++

Never had that problem yet. Mine just hit 10000 miles. Love every time I drive it.

 

The shifting problem is not related to lower rpm but to full throttle gear change at higher rpm in lower gears where there is of course more forces and it s harsher for the mechanical parts.

I don t know if the actuator could become slower when older but I reat that some cars with that same slower gear shifting are very low mileage.

Maybe we should try to have f1 and clutch fluid bleeded and replaced.

I have a new clutch but it still do the same and with lower pis it seems better but not the solution.

What about the gear engagement sensors?

Gearbox bushings?

ediff not working correctly?

 

+1
I practice what the manual says and I never had inconsistant shifting issues.