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  #1  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:25 AM
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Question Clutch Wear: F1 vs Manual?

I hear that the predicted life for an f430/360 F1 clutch is about 20k miles.

Seems like a very low number, is this due to the fast shifting nature of the F1 gear box? Because there are many more, more powerful cars out there with clutches lasting much much longer than that.

What would the expected life of a clutch on a manual f430/360 be? Considerably more, (under non-track conditions)

Lastly, what do you think the new 458 Italia double clutch wear be?
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:15 AM
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F360/430 clutch should last 20-30k mi if carefully driven. If lots of hills and city driving, it can be much lower.

458 is supposed to ve lifetime like other dual clutch.
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2011, 09:56 AM
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Considering how much power goes through these cars, 20k miles is a lot in my opinion. If driven properly they can last that long or more. I have seen cars with clutch readings that would scare a potential buyer because the car was driven poorly or tracked often. 20k miles is also a lot on these types of cars. I'm all about driving my car but if not a DD it takes a long time to rack up 20k. I have 8k on my 07 and feel like I drive it often.

Last edited by gmast827; 07-01-2011 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:07 AM
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I just had the clutch life checked on the Scuderia 16M. The 4% wear (4400 miles) suggests a clutch life well beyond 20,000 miles.

Tim
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:35 PM
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Basically, I would say that there is no difference between the F1 and manual clutch wear as the clutch itself is identical (only the trust bearing differs).

But I believe that it's the user who makes the real difference between both as it is maybe more tempting to gear more often with the F1 than the manual. Properly driven both clutches can last a very long time. My manual has already many miles on the clutch and is still biting very strongly. A friend of mine is tracking a lot his 16M, has also a lot miles on it, but has still a very low % of estimated wear.
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SfefVan View Post
Basically, I would say that there is no difference between the F1 and manual clutch wear as the clutch itself is identical (only the trust bearing differs).

But I believe that it's the user who makes the real difference between both as it is maybe more tempting to gear more often with the F1 than the manual. Properly driven both clutches can last a very long time. My manual has already many miles on the clutch and is still biting very strongly. A friend of mine is tracking a lot his 16M, has also a lot miles on it, but has still a very low % of estimated wear.
Absolutely correct.

Driving style, where it is driven and used, and how the clutch is engaged is the main reason for clutch wear differences.

High speed shifts have the least amount of wear. Slow shifts (like in Auto mode from a dead stop to 1st) are the worst. Driving up inclines or reversing also cause excessive wear in both.

If anything, the F1 can actually help with clutch wear as every shift is "perfect" with the matching of the engine to the gearbox. No human can be that perfect every time.

One last thing. Unless a Ferrari is used on long trips, 20K miles is something like 8 years of use. And, if it's used on long trips, the clutch does not wear either. Looking at it that way, replacing the clutch once every 8 years seems like a bargain.
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  #7  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:51 PM
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Use the search button

The search button is your friend on this topic. It has been discussed at great length in great detail on many occasions over many years. Just one of many relevant recent threads would be Question about 360 F1 clutch?. Basic conclusion is that potential clutch life for both manual and F1 transmissions in 360s and F430s is the same and depends mostly on owner technique. Either can be abused into premature failure and both can be driven to the same very high miles (way more than 20K).
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2014, 11:48 PM
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Can someone confirm this. My mechanic told me that if I baby my Ferrari, it will break down faster than the one that is driven hard. Can anybody confirm this? Obviously, driving hard would result in clutch wear faster but if you baby your ferrari, your gasket, rubbers, belts, and other engine parts may fail faster. Any thoughts? Is my mechanic trying to gouge me for future repetitive repairs?
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:15 AM
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Funny you should mention this Michael.
I just had my car at a Ferrari clinic on Tuesday where they cleared some codes.
The tech told me to drive the damn thing, and drive it harder than what I am now.
So when I get a ticket I will just tell the officer what I was told. That's going to work.
But when I bought the car the clutch wear was at 11%.
8000k's later it's at 25%, so it's not really wearing much I reckon. My car has done 30000k's now, so by my thinking, and my driving style I have got heaps left.

The F1 is brilliant. I love it and will never again buy a manual car.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SfefVan View Post
Basically, I would say that there is no difference between the F1 and manual clutch wear as the clutch itself is identical (only the trust bearing differs).

But I believe that it's the user who makes the real difference between both as it is maybe more tempting to gear more often with the F1 than the manual. Properly driven both clutches can last a very long time. My manual has already many miles on the clutch and is still biting very strongly. A friend of mine is tracking a lot his 16M, has also a lot miles on it, but has still a very low % of estimated wear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMayor View Post
Absolutely correct.

Driving style, where it is driven and used, and how the clutch is engaged is the main reason for clutch wear differences.

High speed shifts have the least amount of wear. Slow shifts (like in Auto mode from a dead stop to 1st) are the worst. Driving up inclines or reversing also cause excessive wear in both.

If anything, the F1 can actually help with clutch wear as every shift is "perfect" with the matching of the engine to the gearbox. No human can be that perfect every time.

One last thing. Unless a Ferrari is used on long trips, 20K miles is something like 8 years of use. And, if it's used on long trips, the clutch does not wear either. Looking at it that way, replacing the clutch once every 8 years seems like a bargain.

This ^.......2 really good posts. A bit of mechanical sympathy particularly when starting from a standstill and wear is relatively low. Mine wore 3% between annual services (3k miles).
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  #11  
Old 04-18-2014, 09:01 AM
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5k on the clutch in my 06 mans Trans f430 and it feels perfect. I was told 20k as well but hope it lasts longer.
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  #12  
Old 04-18-2014, 11:44 AM
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on my 360, first clutch was changed 27k miles, second clutch is nearing end of life but it has 32k miles on it right now, I am changing the clutch this summer and it will be around 35k miles. (I was at 25% wear left last summer when I did the belts/major and in the last few weeks it has started "dragging" at stop lights, so its time)
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  #13  
Old 04-18-2014, 12:06 PM
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I have 24K on my manual 430. No sign of slippage. Wear cannot be read on manuals.

Dave
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  #14  
Old 04-20-2014, 04:35 PM
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Smile Clutch Life

Just had my annual service done. Clutch wear is at 22.7%. 2007 F430 F1 Spider.
21,356 miles and ALWAYS driven in race mode.
This car has been to the Crescent Classic in Arkansas the last 3 years and gets the piss driven out of it for 4 days. The Crescent Classic is rated as one of the top Ferrari rallies held each year in the US.
I just don't understand why the standard answer when someone asks about clutch life, the
standard response is "about 20,000 miles".
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  #15  
Old 04-20-2014, 06:51 PM
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Standard response should be "Depends on driving style and type of roads on which she is used." One driven mostly on the highway will show much less wear than one driven mostly in downtown San Francisco or other hilly urban/suburban area. Driver style is much harder to quantify.
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2014, 06:59 PM
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I have a client with a 360F1 daily driver and lives in the hills. His 1st clutch went over 50,000. His second got replaced at 70,000 only because a transmission seal failed and soaked the clutch with gear oil. That said a human operated clutch can last longer.

I have never replaced a worn out clutch in one of my own car and a few have gone over 200,000 miles. My 328 just got a major engine overhaul and I put the old clutch back in.

Clutches wear out because people wear them out. I have sent cars to the junk yard with the original clutch.

BTW I have never not lived in the hills. Maybe that is the reason. In the hills we learn how to use a clutch.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:00 AM
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Very informative thread, especially to F1-naive drivers like me. Admittedly I have been misinformed about the F1 clutch which I thought wears faster because of what I read and hear. Then I read this.
Based on above, I get the impression that F1 clutch wear is less at high speeds and more at slower speeds (shifting to 1st from standstill, driving uphill, and reversing). Is that right?
Thanks.

Last edited by Ron328; 04-21-2014 at 12:16 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:54 AM
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Ron- Affirmative. Most wear is on starts from a dead stop. Worst wear is a 360 starting in reverse up a hill because reverse is almost as high a gear as 2nd. F430s have a lower speed reverse and are not as bad, plus they have a tougher clutch. Highway miles put virtually no wear on a clutch.

Brian and I are old farts nearly born with our left foot on a clutch. My first drive was in an old Jeep on a ranch in 1963, but I really learned how to drive in a 61 Corvette in 1964. I have never worn out a clutch, either, and my F1 575M currently has 21,500 miles on the original clutch with lots of wear remaining.

Wear varies with driver style, no getting around it. With practice, though that wear can be minimized.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Ron- Affirmative. Most wear is on starts from a dead stop. Worst wear is a 360 starting in reverse up a hill because reverse is almost as high a gear as 2nd. F430s have a lower speed reverse and are not as bad, plus they have a tougher clutch. Highway miles put virtually no wear on a clutch.

Brian and I are old farts nearly born with our left foot on a clutch. My first drive was in an old Jeep on a ranch in 1963, but I really learned how to drive in a 61 Corvette in 1964. I have never worn out a clutch, either, and my F1 575M currently has 21,500 miles on the original clutch with lots of wear remaining.

Wear varies with driver style, no getting around it. With practice, though that wear can be minimized.

Thank you, Terry. This really helps me a lot. I have been looking for a late model 360/early 430 but couldn't find a manual. I have avoided F1 because of misinformation. Then a thread like this changes everything.
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  #20  
Old 04-22-2014, 01:45 PM
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If maintenance bills are your concern, the clutch in an F1 car is the least of your worries- it's the F1 hydraulics that are pricey (a concern you avoid in a 3-pedal car).
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