Clutch Wear Theory - F1 F430

I think your correct. At least in what you have observed anyway. I'm not sure about the clutch wear particulars, but it does seem that it smells under hard acceleration. I think this has to do with the transfer of power through the clutch and other components that work around the clutch at speed. I think we find that there is little to no smell in reverse or from standstill to moving speeds because the car doesn't remain at these points for very long.

I would imagine that if you were to drive in reverse for the equivalent distance that you travel from 3rd to 4th gear moving forward, the clutch would be burning through the nice piece of glass Ferrari puts on the back of our cars.

 

Trent, I just wanted to say that I love the way you write. Your posts are informative and entertaining at the same time.

 

We had a dealer seminar that specifically went over the F1 system in detail and the 4 most significant causes of clutch wear by far are--

1) Slow take off from stop (creaping)

2) Going uphill or over curbs from stop (for example, pulling into an inclined parking space).

3) Auto mode. Auto mode is designed to simulate an automatic transmission feel and slips the clutch more than sport or race mode.

3) Reverse in any situation but uphill the worst of all.

All other causes of clutch wear are insignificant to what these four can do, but other factors of course will make it worse or better.

So, if you want to make your clutch last, don't drive much in stop and go traffic and if you do, let traffic move ahead so the clutch stops slipping early, don't park in an uphill situation, don't use "auto" mode, and don't reverse.

 

lol, I was actually just going to say the exact same thing. I appreciate your style Trent, keep it up .

As for clutch, the only thing I try to do is not lull it from N-1 takeoffs, I reverse when I have to reverse and engage the clutch as fast as it can be done in reverse with limited visibility and a sexy back end I don't want to ram into anything, and past that, I do whatever is the most fun for me . Rather than pulling N for every stop, I often downshift to let the CS TCU scream out some sublime throttle blips. My 911 is a quite and uneventful downshifter, but missing that feature of the Ferrari takes so much fun out of it. Life is too short and a new clutch is too cheap in comparison to the overall price and cost of ownership of these cars not to drive them in the most fun manner for you personally, clutch wear be damned! Shift at 8.5k WOT if you wish!

Otherwise, it's a slipperly slope and whats next? Avoid fast corners to save on tire tread? Tires can be as expensive as a clutch to. Avoid high speeds and/or hard stops to save on brakes? Like I said, drive it like you stole it and in the manner that is reasonable, yet as much fun as possible .

 

MikeR
10+


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Very good point about automode. I don't know why people would even use it. I suspect the reason is unfamiliarity with a manual trans. Whatever the reason, I agree that it's a terrible waste of a perfectly good clutch. Fred

 

Great info ...

Agreed, if it's fun to downshift and the manual does not tell you no to do so, then by all means enjoy the car, am sure there are several factors that can greatly reduce clutch life span (e.g, reversing up hill, etc....), however if driving the thing the way it should be driven will reduce my clutch mileage by 1k (replacement required @ 19K instead of 20K), well I'll take that 5% and not worry too much.

With that said, I wonder how much mileage are racers getting before a replacement is required, on the track upshift and downshift are done at high RPM, if the theory claims less clutch wear when shifting at high RPM then I would assume 30K plus for track cars?

 

The only time i've ever got the clutch overheating warning to come on in the 458 is when i was really flogging the car at high rpms shifting getting onto a tollroad. different clutch system i know, but this is a good thread so any info is great. would love to understand how it all works more. Thanks Trent and BD for the great posts.

 

Am I the only one that really wants to know your other two talents?

 

Good to know. Any mention whether these same things are true w/r/t DCT transmissions in 458 and California, too?

 

I like MikeR's way of thinking...

I do know that the manual specifically says to hold the gas steady when shifting, not to let off and then get back on it. So that's what I do when I'm really on it. I do fractionally lift the gas when shifting if I am cruising as that seems to be the best way to get the smoothest shift. The horse will buck if you let off too much though.

I reverse up my slight incline of a driveway every time I drive it. I figure moving would be more expensive than replacing a clutch though...

 

Probably

 

I have a manual transmission and can smell the clutch burn at certain times when I'm really on the throttle shifting quickly and then slowing down afterward.

I say drive the car and don't worry too much about excessive clutch wear. When the clutch wears out, replace it.

 

So what would be a solution if you have a sloped driveway? I guess maybe back in Neutral? I'm quite interested because I would like a 430 soon and I know a manual is tuff to find. Thanks

 

Thanks, I get the idea. My driveway slopes down to the garage. I suppose I could put it in Neutral and back in. Then drive straight out. Thanks again.

 

Most conclusions in this discussion are right on. Clutch wear from regular shifting is almost negligible until very high RPM and speeds are involved. That’s when the most engine power is transferred through the clutch and the flywheel/pressure plate differential is greatest = huge loads and significant wear.

This is an oft repeated myth. The only difference between Auto Mode and manual operation of the F1 paddles is who makes the decision to shift. A computer (not the TCU) makes the decision in Auto Mode while the driver makes that decision in manual mode.

The TCU has no knowledge of Auto Mode and plays no role when Auto Mode is selected. The TCU software (firmware in the case of pre-’02 cars) has three modes of clutch actuation: (1) constant slip, (2) normal, and (3) sport.

“Constant slip” software is used by reverse and low traction modes. Obviously very significant clutch wear will result from excessive use of both these modes and should be avoided whenever possible.

“Normal” software seeks to balance smooth shifting against minimal clutch slippage. The balance is purposely tilted towards a smooth getaway from stopped which is why some responsibility falls on the driver to avoid excessive clutch slippage during that time. As noted above, starting from stopped up an incline definitely makes the situation worse.

“Sport” software emphasizes minimal shift time but still leans towards a smooth transition when starting from stopped (except for “launch control”, but that’s another topic).

That’s it.

No matter how many times it’s claimed otherwise in cyberspace, there simply isn’t any reflection of Auto Mode in the Ferrari F1 TCU software. It’s true that the computer controlling Auto Mode (again, not the TCU) generally decides to shift at different times and more often than most drivers. However, under street conditions at legal speeds it’s just not going to result in any more clutch wear than manual operation of the paddles.

 

Hi Guys,

Interesting facs here. I was wondering if some can help me out on this clutch wear theory/read-out and facs.
Today I went to the workshop to check out the reads of a clutch and we (=me and the mechanic) were puzzeled by the reads of the F430 (2008) with 20.000km (=16.000 miles) on the clock.
After 41.000 shifts total the clutch reads 16,5% wear (low?). Strange is however the pressure read of hydraulic circuit = -7.9 (should be over 40 bar) attention: it reads minus 7,9....
Also battery voltage =3,6 V instead of 12...
Gearbox primary shaft rpm = 0 but engine was running at 1009 rpm
Also clutch overheat-time = 3110 sec....
We checked the diagnostic gear on an other F430 (2006) and all reads were fine (battery 12V, hydraulic 48 bar ect.) so gear was/is ok

We suspect a clutch change but no learning program was put in after the change. So we put it in. After putting it in, still same reads/numbers as before...

Anyone any idea whats going on? Can we trust the wear of 16,5% if battery read, hydraulic press is off?

It is a nice car but must be ok to consider a buy.

Anybody?

Fred

 

Camdon: I'm sorry but you are only telling the half truth. The fact is that anyone who has driven in auto mode knows the car shifts at lower RPMs in almost all cases than a person would normally. This is done because the TCU is designed to optimize fuel economy and lower emissions in Auto mode.

THIS is why the car always starts in Auto mode. To the EPA, the "default mode" is the version that is used for the test. Anyone who has driven an F430 knows the EPA fuel economy rating of the car in the City is a joke.

Now, if you also notice, the lower RPM that you decide to shift the F430, the slower the clutch engages in and out (aka more slip). This is to avoid jerkiness at low speeds. You do this also with a manual gearbox. So, you have more shifts and you have with more slip per mile traveled.

In this way, Auto mode causes higher clutch wear. That's just a fact. 99% of all drivers do not drive in manual mode the same way they would in Auto.

Now, if someone were to drive their F430 the same way they would in Auto mode, you would be correct. But, it almost never happens.

But hey, it's not me saying it. It's the master tech at my dealer. I'm just repeating what I've been told.

That being said, the worst things you can do to the clutch is slip it up an incline, in stop and go traffic, and in reverse. These are by far much worse.

 

The clutch wear index is not to be trusted. Altering the PIS adjusts clutch wear, shady dealers can even adjust the PIS far enough to disguise a worn clutch prior to sale! As you correctly say, the clutch MAY have been replaced without setting the new closed clutch position, in which case the wear index will be completely invalid. Clutch wear is simply an extrapolation between the distance travelled by the release bearing and it's original new position.

 

Great writeup and tips. I'll have that tatoo'd on my arm.


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Annother "print"out which raises questions:
Number of times hydraulic pump activation counter reads 41040.

Adding up al gear changes:
1e = 12347
2e = 19001
3e = 18521
4e = 15594
5e = 13810
6e = 6785 (low !!!)
rev= 2487
---------- +
74734 if everytime the pump is activated by shifting (correct?)

Also I wonder (when door in opened, pump is activated) this countes to... If so this does not add up at all!

Can somebody please explain? Otherwise I walk away of this beautiful F430...
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Someone please help him. Nobody should walk away from such a beautiful 430.


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How does the car drive?