1999 Ferrari 360 AC Recharge

Awesome! thanks for writing this up with photos! Mine is not cold either and was wondering how to do it!
Hunter

 

Thanks! Great Post! Anyone want to post some pics on a non 1999 a/c location?

 

Right. So no vacuum of the system? Change filter/drier? System pressure check?
Not wise. Not wise at all.....

 

Be sure to label your system that it contains different freon and sealer. It will save some future shop/owner a lot of money as they won't have to contaminate their equipment, they'll just have to replace most of the system. Short term quick fix, not the correct fix IMO. If it needs freon, there is a leak, if you top it off, use the correct freon.

 

Heck, even these cars are falling into the quick/cheap fix brigade!
Ever wonder what becomes of these down the road folks?
They're the problem cars you all like to moan and groan about, call the shop mechanics crooks and thieves because they HAVE to fix things properly and it will be NO cheaper the second go around.
Typical, short term "not my problem" attitudes.

 

I don't see anything wrong with topping off the A/C if there is a slight leak. You are just prolonging the "proper" repair. If it takes 3 years to come down in pressure again, it's not much of a leak. The only problem I have with what the OP did, is put in 134 with a sealer in it. I don't like gumming everything up with additives. I think he should have just topped off with clean 134a.
Something else to consider is that if you have to top off often, you are losing a little compressor oil with the leaking refrigerant. If you add only 134a, you will have less and less oil in the system over time. The best way to fix leaking refrigerant, is to empty the system, fix the leak, replace the drier, vacuum the system and refill with the proper amount of 134a. All that said, I wouldn't hesitate to top my system off every few years with clean 134a. If it was a significant leak, I would definitely fix it properly though.

 

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Car-Air-Con-Regas-DIY-Tins-of-Refrigerent-BEWARE?ugid=10000000021782214

You are not drawing a vacuum. You don't know how much refrigerant is left in it. You haven't even checked for a leak.You can't accurately measure what the high-side is doing by randomly squirting refrigerant into the low side port. The system should be charged by refrigerant weight. Just because it's currently working doesn't mean the nose seal won't pop out of the compressor anytime soon. Injecting that gunk in with the refrigerant (which works like some of the crappy stuff you put in cooling system to plug leaks instead of fixing them) will contaminate the system, and it's not a good thing to have in there! I can't see any benefit in Cheaping out and risking a very expensive compressor or a whole dash-pull to replace a gunked-up evaporator.....?

 

It's the additives that can cause issues. Freon is available in straight form in any parts store and would have had the same affect. As Eddie states, just a band-aid, but that's what most folk are happy with nowadays.

 

a pro ac shop also adds additives such as uv dye, seal conditioner when refilling the ac.

if the ac is leaking though, it's better to find the leak. ac shops have a leak detector / sniffer that can pin point the leak better than dye.

since you filled it already. i would still ask a shop to look for leak after running ac for a few days. if you like diy, the sniffer is only $35-50, available at harbor freight or ebay. it'd be good to know you have a proper fix imo.

nothing wrong with topping off r134. vaccuum is needed when changing parts so you don't lose the r134. r134 is mostly oil. most shops will vacuum your r134 into the machine with other r134 and then put it back into the car.

 

You don't just vac out a system when you replace a component. The correct way to do it is to remove the gas, it is recycled (to get the trapped moisture out of it) then it is weighed and an oil reading is taken. After evacuation the system is vacuumed and the refrigerant plus the extra amount needed is added by weight, together with a uv dye and PAG oil. When you get it done properly, this is what happens. Shops use fully automatic machines, you set scale weight and vac time and it's done automatically. Vacuum is important as the water trapped in the system rots everything to hell. Don't believe me? Next time you change your drier bottle saw the old one in half. You will find a desiccant moisture pack and A LOT of rust inside...

 

Unfortunately shops are required to have licensed personel to work on A/C equipment, along with the correct recovery systems, leak testers etc. Also have to properly dispose of contaminated freon as a hazardous waste, VERY expensive! Because of this we need to test the stuff already in a car, any mixes are not recyclable and have to be evacuated separately then disposed of. Straight freon can be recycled without problem although it is run through filters to ensure being OK to go back in. It is hardly ever necessary to add dye, the current sniffers are ultra sensitive if the operator knows what they are doing.

Unfiortunately the ads on TV allow anyone to buy and add this mixture to their systems, the 'O ring' additive is designed to make the seals swell up, temporary fix and a failure down the road, just like the "trans leak" fixes.

But hey, it's cool in the car right now, so that's a good thing, right?

 

Fantastic Post, Once again Ferrarichat and the Great group of guys come through again

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by up4speed
The only problem I have with what the OP did, is put in 134 with a sealer in it. I don't like gumming everything up with additives.

Not really gumming anything up. The sealant is an oil based product. When in contact with air forms a sealant. As it is recirculating in the sealed system of the refrigerant circuit its compatiable with the refrigerant oil. Once it escapes from the source of the leak it forms a seal. Dont confuse this technology with tire sealants like Fix a Flat that has a rubber sealant compound to it. This is an entirely different technology.

 

Being a certified Automotive A/C person, the UV dye is really nice to have in the system. That way when a car comes in with no Freon in the system, you can scan the car with a UV light and find the leak without spending a lot of time with a scanner. Also, the scanners are really sensitive to hydrocarbons. The sensitive ones will go off from simply breathing on them. Sometimes leaks will happen only when the hoses are cool and not many people drive their cars in without getting them hot. R134A is manufactured to a standard so there is not a lot of variance between brands. However, some put in additives. Unless you are changing components such as a compressor, condensor and the like, you should not need to add refridgerant oil or additional dye and leak sealer. Stay with the plain style for top up. Even the best systems will weep a bit and might need toping up every year or so. Some won't. Also best to check high and low side with some real gauges. The top up variety only checks the low side. If there is a problem with the system, you can easily overcharge it by reading only the low side. I also tend to stay away from fixes in a can. If they swell up the o-rings, how do they know when to stop?

 

+1, well put sir. Only thing on the dye is that people wait until it has quit again by which time the trace can become spread out.

 

The dye is in the oil and unless it is a severe leak, it usually stays localized. Even then it makes it obvious. The neat part is you can show the customer before any work is done where the leak is. The dye is very hard to reomove. Brake cleaner will cut it but it really does not show except under a black light once the excess oil is wiped away. Most of the common leaks are going to be where the hoses clamp. Other common areas are the seams on the compressor and as the cars age, anywhere pipes connect with o-rings. Condensors and evaporators are highly overrated for leaks at least on most other cars.

 

I didn't know how the stuff exactly works, however, I think a good rule of thumb is:
If it didn't come in the car from the factory, it probably will have some side affect to it. I may be wrong, but if I care about my cars, I follow that rule. All that said, I have used the same stuff as the OP in some of my cars that I didn't care as much about. I had good success with it, it restored the a/c without any known side affects!

 

Good info in this thread but two opposite opinions to whether this is advisable.

The weather has been very hot here in the uk the last week or so is the first time I have ever needed to use the a/c. The a/c works just doesn't blow ice cold. I'm very tempted to try something like this as it's really not a priority to spend £200 on investigating the issue at a garage when I probably won't need to use the a/c again for another few years.

Can anyone tell me if I purchased a set of gauges and a can of top up, whether this is moderately advisable? The main concern as far as I can tell is that using just the can won't tell you if the high side is within the pressure range and therefore if its not and a top up is used, the pressure difference between the two sides will be too great and something will blow. If I measure both sides prior to any topping up, surely this reduces the chance of breaking anything?

I appreciate the use of plain freon is better than using stuff with additives.

Also would it be ok to use any gauges I already have such as a tyre pressure gauge that is capable of measuring up to the expected pressures the high side would be? I am unsure of the fitment type of the valves but an adaptor would surely be available to save purchasing another set of gauges especially for the job.

Greatful for any advice.

 

Can anyone help?? Want to try a top up this weekend if anyone thinks by checking both pressures and top up with a can should be ok.

 

Just go out and buy one of these at your local Walmart or UK equivalent. Then open the panel in the front boot beneath the windshield. the AC recharge low pressure port will be visible and it will have the larger diameter nipple onto which you can fit the charger. Put it on, look at the pressure with the car running and then add some if you need.

It's what we in 'merica cawl redneck Ferrari repair. (If it can be purchased at Walmart it's a redneck repair)

Just be careful not to put too much coolant in. Too much and the compressor gets strained and you could kill it... just be warned.
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