I was asked to post this issue on a new thread, so here goes. Before I delve into the details of the thread below, I am hoping to appeal to the people who know the top system well to help. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/335288-need-help-roof-wont-go-up-9.html My problem is as follows: 1) Top goes down fine (opening the roof) 2) The top going up is intermittent (closing the roof) Symptom is as follows: In the failed top case, while closing the top all the painted covers open correctly. However it appears (looking in the rear view mirror) that the rams for the soft top start pulling the soft top down into the engine bay instead of pushing up to close the roof. Opening and closing the painted covers a few times usually get it closed. Hydraulic fluid levels are fine. Video is here: http://wingert.org/ferrari360/Ferrari360-TopUp_x264.mp4 Video Narration I am attaching a video of the failure case. To narrate the video, I press forward on the switch to start the closing, I let the pump run a little while the RAMs push the top down into the engine bay, I release the switch (the top pops up a little), I press forward on the switch again the same thing happens. I then push back on the switch to close the painted covers and then forward on the switch to close the top and it works fine. I also tried to "help the top" in the failure case. Pulling the top closed does nothing. However pushing the top downward into the engine bay after the painted covers open seems to help, I closed it successfully 4 times in a row (but this may be anecdotal). Pointers much appreciated. Chris
Thank you for the video. Could be: 1. Solenoid for this set of Rams is going bad and not switching the hydraulics correctly: .a. Test resistance of solenoid. May as well test them all, only takes a few minutes with a meter once the panel is removed. 2. One of the two rams for this stage has a failed internal piston allowing fluid to leak past. It wont leak externally in this failure mode. Sometimes the piston works once it moves a few millimeters in either direction and thus gets a better seal on ram housing. Moving the top by hand "helping" should work in this case though. 3. Top mechanism pivot points may need to be lubed. I do not recall what lubricant the manual recommends (if it does at all), but wither a white lithium or thick bearing grease should work depending on the joint. You may just have a little too much friction. To lube you will have to follow the "manual operation procedure" for the top. I would have at least two people on hand. Three is better. Because the top works after many tries I am ruling out the pump for now. But it could be a failing pressure regulator. An integrated part of the main pump block $10k new. The pump, solenoids, and pressure regulator are all part of the same block. You can get the blocks from a dismantler MUCH cheaper.
Thanks for the help. I tried to help the soft top a few more times (after waiting a couple of hours) and neither push nor pull seemed to help consistently. I definitely see the top RAMs going in the wrong direction. I also don't see any twisting (eg one RAM pushing harder than the other). So I doubt it's theory #2 or theory #3. Theory #1 seems to be the most likely. I'll try and see if I can get a replacement solenoid. Chris
I also just noticed that the car was NOT running. I believe the car is suppose to be running when actuating the top. With the car running your voltage to the pump and solenoids is 13.4 volts instead of 11.9 volts with the car off. The difference in current can be substantial. Assuming the pump has a 1 ohm resistance (just a wild guess for example): Current = Voltage / Resistance Voltage....Current 12.0v.......12 Amps 13.4v.......13.4 Amps Thats 12% more energy as Power = Current * Voltage Question: If you actuated the top UP 10 times. What would be the failure rate with CAR_RUNNING Vs CAR_OFF? You can not just buy the solenoids new, to my knowledge, but maybe a recycler would sell one out of a block. Diagram Here: Ferrari 360 Spider Parts : Table 119 - HYDRAULIC PLANT AND ELECTROHYDRAULIC PUMP Rams 6 and 7 drive the canopy assembly. Removing the solenoid for rams 6,7 and cleaning it, or visually inspecting it may yield results or leads. Note that the fluid is caustic and will destroy what it touches, so have many rags available and protect all surfaces painted parts included. The solenoid appears to be the bottom one, but if you have your hand on it you will feel it "click" during that part of the actuation. Now I am not sure how the Rams might be going the wrong direction? Possibilities: 1. They are not, just looks like it because one ram has failed causing a binding when side A tries to move up, it pushes side B (where side Bs ram has almost failed) down. Basically a twist. 2. The Top Control Unit has failed or is in an unknown state. Have you disconnected the battery or the Top Controller for a few min to reset it? 3. A microswitch has failed causing the Top Controller to do something unexpected. This is hard to believe because it would be moving the top the wrong direction, opposing the physical user command. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks again, I am fairly sure the rams are not leaking internally, I see no twist comparing the two rams. I also was able to attain the failure mode with the car started and after a full trickle charge. However, you are correct, it does seem to fail less often on full charge, but again this is anecdotal. A question, if I look at page 1133 of the manual (PDF version), I see a diagram with the hydraulic circuit. It appears that MVZ (solenoid #6) controls the action I am having problems with. Can you explain the theory of operation for that solenoid MVZ? The manual says its a three way normally open solenoid. The solenoid activated causes the rams to perform the close action and the solenoid deactivated causes the rams to perform the open action. What I don't see in the diagram is how you get the ram to do nothing. The pump and common feed seems to be always on during the open and close operation, but these rams only move for a portion of the whole opening or closing cycle. Any pointers? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Have you tried powering down the car via the trunk power switch? There are known sequence gremlins that have been resolved by resetting the top control system. Recommend leaving the power off for an hour or more.
Re-reading the parent thread, I found this. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/140782444-post76.html Same problem. I'll PM anexpert, to see how he diagnosed this problem. Thanks! Chris
I had the exact same issues as the op and it turned out to be the little plastic painted pieces that slide in. One of the wasn't going as far in as the other (even though they both went in) and when I gave it a little push the top worked perfect
