360 Radio replacement update request

I have one of these on the way and will be looking for adapters like you mention.

Pioneer DEH-8600BH
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Something to help you guys with - posting I made last week for others who wanted to change their headunits as well:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/432430-360-radio-head-unit-suggestions.html#post142804565

cheers.

 

Had a full system, subtle in taste, in my spider. Love it!! I will post up some pics in coming days. In short, Alpine up front and JL Audio takes care of the rest.

Deiger

 

I also had a full system overhaul. My head unit is a Kenwood KVT 615, with backup camera, GPS, iPod interface, and bluetooth, with a host of other great features. It is a pop-out touch screen unit.

 

I gutted the stereo on my 360 and replaced everything.

Used Hertz for speakers and amp. Focal mini subs in the OEM sub enclosure. I tried three CD receivers before settling on the Alpine. I found the Alpine had the best combination of features and functions vs. Pioneer and Kenwood.

I did work myself and if you want more details, PM me

Steve

 

I've just installed an IVA 511 which has the motorised screen, along with the sat/nav module and phone interface plus rear view camera, looks and sound good and reversing improved.

Next upgrade will be the Audison Bit 1 or 10 with external amp and new speakers.

 

Clarion NZ503 AM/FM/DVD/ Sirius, HD, Bluetooth, Nav, Backup Camera and Focal speakers 165KF and Focal sub woofer and Focal Solid 4 amp.
Sound is super and I can close the screen anytime to get the look.

 

It depends on what radio unit you get but the adapters are out there. i decided to go with a Pioneer unit so I needed this one.

Pioneer Car Radio Stereo Latest Spec 16 Pin Wiring Harness Loom Iso 2010 Onwards | eBay

 

Which model Focal sub did you use and was it direct fit in the Hi-Fi option sub housing? I've always liked Focal.
Thanks!

 

Yes, the Focal 5" subs will install very nicely in the 360 / 430 sub housing. I used the Focal 13KS ... but they are no longer available. The replacement is the Focal 13WS that is available various places ... e.g., Crutchfield ... Focal Utopia Be® 13 WS Shallow-mount 5" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com

Three note worthy things to point out ...

The stock sub enclosure is really too small to be a true sub woofer. But I wanted to retain the stock look. I replace the single crappy 5" speaker / passive radiator option with two Focal 5" subs. Because the enclosure is small, the audio response curve is only going to get down to about 50HZ ... not really true sub woofer range, but it is a huge improvement over the stock setup and the Focals have the oomph to push out some pretty good bass response. I am quite pleased with the sound quality.

When installing the Focals, the existing screw holes do not match up exactly, so I drilled some new pilot holes in the sub housing and there was no problem.

The existing plastic speaker grills have small plastic tabs to secure to the sub housing. With the Focal subs, they will not work. You can have someone make up some new grills, but I merely cut off the tabs and then using a small dab of automotive window glazing putty (very small dab) ... I secured the plastic grills to the speaker frame. Works like a charm.

You should also replace the door speakers and tweeter. Ferrari uses some low quality components. I replace those with Hertz 165XL ... available on Amazon (Amazon.com: Hertz Audio HSK 165XL (HSK165XL) 6.5" Hi-Energy 2-Way Component Speaker System: Car Electronics)

Regards,

Steve

 

Steve, did you consider Focals to replace the door speakers? I want to try them out but am not sure which ones to go for. I saw a thread where one guy had to do some mods to the door parts to make them fit and I do not want to make any mods to the car? I think he had the Focal KRX2. There are less bulky versions. Do you know if any of them require no mods to car?

 

I considered the Focals for the door replacements, but they are twice the cost of the Hertz speakers. The Hertz components have excellent ratings ... every bit as good as Focal IMO. I only used Focal for the subs cuz they were the only 5" subs I could find. I could not find any other quality brand with a 5" size.

With the Hertz components, i had to enlarge the opening in the door, but only in a couple of spots to allow the larger magnet of the speaker to fit. The mount itself fit fine. It is just that the stock speakers are about 3mm smaller diameter at the magnet frame. The screw holes to secure them to the door align OK. I removed the stock speaker grills from the Ferrari speakers and reused them thus preserving a perfectly stock appearance. I expect the Focals wiil require minor enlargement in door so the magnets will fit in. The screw mounts should be fine. Check the screw diameter on the Hertz speakers and compare to the Focals to make sure.

One other anomaly ... Ferrari wiring for the door speakers is strange. They have a single pair of wires to drive both the tweeter and woofer. With the new speakers, you run a separate pair of wires from the the crossover to the tweeter and woofer. This meant I could not use the existing door speaker wires with my setup. Running new wires to the door speakers was not fun. Another problem was where to put the crossovers? I ended using the Ferrari amplifier tray under center of dashboard to house the crossovers. My amplifier installed where the six disk CD player was originally. Running power and speaker wires to the amp was difficult.

If you are planning on doing the install yourself, be prepared for a massive amount of work. It took me three weeks to do mine ...

Steve

 

Thanks Steve. I really appreciate the post! I am still on the fence if I want to try it myself or not. I have been looking at the wiring and the doors and thought that might be the tough part. I have a stock amplifier cradle and like the idea of putting crossovers in there but I am trying to get by without adding an amp. Is this a foolish thing to do? Do you think I would be hurting the system components if I try to drive the focals from a Pioneer 80PRS?
Do you know if the cross overs get wired from the RCA outputs from the radio or the regular speaker outs?

 

Hi Kevin,

IMO, trying to drive the speakers and a sub woofer from the Pioneer head unit will not provide the fidelity you are trying to achieve ... it would be an improvement as you will be upgrading the speakers, but the Pioneer 80PRS is only rated at 14 watts RMS and 50 watts peak. You may find that is not enough power to deliver the sound volume you want in a car that is inherently noisy to begin with.

That said ... I would advise you go ahead and try it. No worries, you not going to hurt the components. If you are satisfied with the results then you will be done. If after you try the Pioneer alone, you think you need more power, you can always add the amp to your installation.

You would wire in the crossovers using the Pioneer the same as using the amp. That is, you run your right and left channel speaker output wires to the crossover inputs and then wire the speakers from the crossovers. There are 8 RCA outputs on that Pioneer. Two are just R and L speaker outputs. Those are what you would use to wire directly to the crossovers / speakers and utilize the Pioneer internal amp. The other six are R and L pre-amp outputs used to connect the Pioneer to an external amp(s). Two each for front and rear speakers and two for the subs. In your Ferrari, you would not use the rear outputs.

I do not think you can use the internal amp on the Pioneer to directly drive the sub-woofer. I might be wrong, but if using the internal amp on the Pioneer (or any dash mounted receiver), you can power the left and right speakers OK, but you will need an external amp for the sub-woofers. Now, you can get a small external amp for the sub woofers and mount it on the floor under one of the seats, so that should not be too much of a problem. To wire in the sub-woofer, you would run the left and right sub woofer pre-amp output to the external sub woofer amplifier and then wire the subs to that amplifier. A single-channel amplifier to drive the subs is fairly inexpensive. JL Audio has a nice one rated at 175 watts (plenty for those Focal 5" min-subs) for about $200 and it is only 2" high, so should be easy to find installation spot. Running 12v power cable to it might be an issue though. And, even if you end up getting a additional amp for your main speakers, you can still utilize the sub woofer amp ... so it would not be money thrown away.

Bottom line ... my advice is to start with plan to use an external amplifier. There are actually a couple of options for finding a location to install the amp. I used the location in the boot where the CD changer was installed. This required a lot of work as had to remove all the carpeted paneling in the boot and the water seal that separates the boot from the car's steering rack and various plumbing. Running power cables to the amp required drilling hole in firewall near battery to run power and speaker cables. Takes a bit of work, but is doable. I used the Hertz HDP-4 Amp ( http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/doc/hertz_hdp4_tech_eng.pdf ) along with the Hertz 165XL speaker kit ( http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/doc/hertz_hienergy_hsk165xl.pdf )

Another option is to use the existing stock amplifier cradle in your car ... this is not very big, but there is manufacturer called ARC Audio which has a very good reputation and product series ... although not like JL Audio or Kicker ... I know of at least one Ferrari 360 in SF Bay area that had his installation performed by an outfit in Roseville, CA that used that cradle to install two 2-channel mini amps. Each amp is only 8.25" x 4.8" x 1.7". One amp drives the door speakers through the crossovers and the other amp is bridged to drive the sub-woofers. ARC Audio has a very good reputation. ARC Audio, Inc. Car audio products for serious music lovers!*| Arc Audio Of course if you use the amp cradle to install an amp, you have to find another place to install the crossovers.

I am very pleased with my audio system. Sounds great and lots of oomph to drive the speakers and subs ..

Good luck

Steve

 

Thanks Steve, thanks to you I feel much more informed. I do not have a subwoofer now which is one of the things I need to figure out too. I was thinking to try and go without one and see how that goes first but you are putting some ideas in my head that make me want to do some more planning first.

 

For cars with HiFi, what is the rated power of the factory amp? Is replacing the head unit, connecting it to the stock HiFi amp a good starting place?
Thanks!
Rick

 

If you like to listen to music and require even mediocre quality, you will need to replace everything and add an amplifier as suggested above. I went with Hertz speakers and an Audison amp. I had a subwoofer box built that fills the area behind the seats. I bought a second pair of lower door panels and modified them to work with the speakers. I mounted the amp in the center of the trunk floor. I recently updated my head unit to an Alpine CDE-149BT and added a microphone for the phone. I love it, and it's all reversible. By the way, when I say I did it, I mean I paid a shop several thousand dollars to do it professionally.

 

When I did my audio install, I was amazed at what piece of crap Sound system Ferrari put in a $200,000 car and charged their clients many thousands for the hi fi option.

But, that said, can you start with merely replacing the receiver? Yes, of course. Doing that will rid you of that god awful Becker radio. But, unless you change out the speakers, the quality of the sound will not improve. Progressing from there .... new speakers will require a more powerful amp and the stock Ferrari amp is just not up to the job.

The most logical starting point is actually the speakers.

For me, and I expect anyone who wants to upgrade the audio system in say a 360, is that there is not a lot of room to put these upgraded components. That was biggest problem in making room ... To add to donho's statement, if you able to afford it, go with good speakers. If you want save some money, you can save a bit on amp and receiver. But get the best speakers you can

Steve

 

For those that have used the Focal speakers, is there a convenient place in the door to mount the crossover?
Thanks!
Rick

 

Whether you use Focal or any other brand of speaker ... I would avoid putting the crossovers in the doors.

Why? Several reasons.

1. There really isn't much room in there. In my case, I was lucky just to get the speakers in there. Not sure which Focal speakers you are considering, but the crossovers for the 165KRX2 speaker system are 5" x 3.75" x 1.4". Pretty good size box to find room in the Ferrari door.

2. You should not mount crossovers directly to metal ... may induce noise problems. This is more of a concern for active crossovers and the Focal is a passive crossover. If you have to mount to metal, mount the crossover to piece of wood first or use rubber standoffs to isolate the case (again, this is more a concern with active crossovers)

3. Doors get wet. You have make sure you isolate the crossovers from potential moisture. Not hard to do, but just one more thing.

4. Were I you, I would mount crossovers in location that allows you to easily make adjustment. Most crossovers have either a adjustment knob or ability to make different connections to tune the tweeter / woofer crossover points. If it is stuck behind a door panel, making adjustments will be problematic. My Hertz 165XL crossovers have three different sets terminals for tuning the tweeters. In order to determine which terminals to use, I had to have the stereo fully installed so I could hear the differences.

I know some people use the doors to mount passive crossovers, but I would be concerned with the frequent opening and closing doors is going to potentially cause problems to the crossovers. This is probably low risk, but since you can mount the things pretty much anywhere, I would think about under the dash or in the boot near the amp. In my case, I mounted the crossovers in the stock amp cradle under the center of the dash.

Now, after all that, there is one good advantage to mounting the crossovers in the door ... you only have to run two wires from the amp to the crossover input. Then the tweeter and woofer are wired to the crossover output. This makes routing wiring a whole lot easier and you have to weigh if that advantage is worth the potential drawbacks mounting the crossover outside the door. If I had the room in my door, I might have done exactly that, because wire routing was pain the butt. But, alas, I did not have the room in my door so it was a moot point.

Steve

 

Steve, this is good food for thought. Do you think it would be a good strategy to mount the crossovers in a temporary location until you get them dialed in and then settle on where they will end up? Maybe the glovebox or door pockets? If I change the length of the wires after getting them dialed in do they need to be re-dialed in?

I have one of those vented custom amplifier boxes on the way from Software drone and it will house an ARC mini amp. I think there is room inside it to also fit the focal passive crossovers but it would be tight. Is heat a problem for the crossovers? Do they put out a lot of heat that might be a problem for the amp?

 

As I stated in my earlier reply, your biggest problem is going to be routing wires from amp to speakers. The existing Ferrari wiring has only two wires going into the doors. They had some kind of inline crossover somewhere in there to then connect the tweeter and woofer, not sure how they accomplished that. So, if you mount the crossovers in the doors (assuming you can find room for them) you could re-use the existing wiring going into the doors as the inputs to the crossovers. This would really reduce your overall effort. I routed entirely new 14GA wiring (four wires to each door) and is was a pain in the butt. The downside are the points I covered in my earlier reply ... but, realistically, if you mount them securely and ensure that moisture will stay away, you should be OK. As I recall, you have the best chance of finding a location near the existing woofers, but when I tried to fit my crossovers (they are larger than the Focal's), they was no room at the inn. But, until you test fit yours, hard to say. In my opinion, your best chance is try the space lower down inside the door just to the rear of woofer mounting. Just have to stay clear of the window glass. You could also use a portion of the door pocket as well. Not sure how much stuff you throw in there, but that should be easy enough to figure out some method of mounting.

As far as dialing them in ... those crossovers have a few different terminals to "dial in" the tweeters. They are probably like mine as they will give you three levels (normal, bright and reduced sharpness). More than likely the normal will be just fine. In my case, I initially set them to brighter than normal and discovered that was too much so I put the terminals in the "normal" position and I haven't touched them since. The length of wires is not an issue and the crossovers do not really generate much heat as they are passive not active. So, no worries on that front. The woofers probably generate more heat and that is not much.

Steve

 

As it seems you going to install your own speakers, another item you should get are a couple of foam baffles for the woofers.

Foam Speaker Baffles at Crutchfield.com

When you remove the stock woofers you will discover that there is a foam enclosure there, but it probably too small for your new speakers.

Get a set of foam baffles that are deep enough to install your new woofers.

Steve

 

I dont own a 360 yet (hopefully sometime this year) and my post count is low because I dont post non value added information jut to increase my post count. But I would like to chime in on this discussion.

I am an electrical engineer for Boeing, I installed car stereos when I was in college and have upgraded my car stereos on all the cars I've owned including my BMW M5, BMW M6 coupe and now my BMW M6 Cabrio.

I agree with with what everyone said - most car manufacturers for the amount of money they charge for their cars install mediocre stereo components. BMW uses Nokia speakers and they too are not the best sounding.

I too would start with speakers, then replace the head unit, then add a mini powered sub.

Lots of choices out there especially if money is no object. I personally like Polk Speakers. You simply cannot beat their speakers for the price.

Lots of choices for the head unit too, just make sure its powerful enough to drive the main speakers if you like your music loud. Alpine, Sony, Kenwood, Clarion, all make great car stereos.

Lots of choices too on subwoofers. You dont have to huge subs not unless you want to be heard within 2 miles as you drive down the road. Cruthfield is always a good source.

I agree with Steve that the most difficult is running wires to the doors and finding room for the crossover network inside the door panel. If you are able to find room, ensure you use powerful 3M double back tape to hold them in place good (without the need to use screws) wrap them in sound deadening material so that they wont rattle or come lose.

Once I get my 360, hopefully soon I will post a step by step DIY thread on how to replace the speakers, head unit and install a subwoofer.

Dan