Hello everyone! I've been looking over this forum for a short while and I decided to just register and leap in. I'm quite sure every question I have about purchasing a Ferrari has been asked and answered countless times but if you will indulge me I'll post my questions here and hope for either answers or links to threads that have the answers. In the next year, I'm going to allocate about $100K to a sports car, and I hope that amount will purchase the car, pay the taxes and insurance, and necessary maintenance for a year or two. Currently I drive a supercharged Lotus Elise, and I love it, or at least most of it. I've also owned a couple Porsche's and a few other sports cars along the way. I've narrowed the search down to a 2009-2010 911 Turbo, or a Ferrari 360 Spider, 2000-2004. Which brings me here. The reason I'm moving on from my Lotus is that it's just a little too raw and basic for anything but relatively short trips in good weather, if you want to be comfortable. Because of the noise, ride, and laughable HVAC system I only take it out on temperate days and cool evenings, and I'd like to find something with the pure thrill of driving that the Elise offers but a little more useful for longer trips and extreme weather. The 911 has the performance I crave, should be comfortable and reliable, as well as practical for trips. The 360 is a Ferrari. I've always lusted for a Ferrari, and I think the 360 is drop dead gorgeous. I want one, I think. But here are the things I need to know: 1. I have not driven one. How well will a 6 foot 2, 200 pounder fit into the drivers seat? 2. Does the AC and heat work really well? Not really well "for a sports car", but really well? 3. I see here some people consider a 360 with 25K miles as "high miles". Does that mean resale value drop off, or does that mean that a 360 won't last a long time? Can you put 100K miles on a 360 without rebuilding the car (generally speaking)? 4. What kind of routine maintenance costs might I expect? Do I need to go to a Ferrari dealer for oil changes and brakes and such? My nearest Ferrari dealer is 2 hours each way. 5. Were there any problems with any particular model year of the 360? 6. Are there must-have or very important options I need to look for? 7. Let's say I spend 90K for the car and hold back 10K for incidentals and maintenance. Can I find a really well cared for 360 spider with low mileage for that in the current market? 8. Where are the best places to shop for a 360. I know Autotrader, but are there better sites to browse? I appreciate any insight on the highs and lows of owning a 10 year old 360. For the record, I'm specifically looking for a Spider with a standard transmission. Thanks for your time Mike
The 360 is spacious for a sports car. Plenty of room. Mine works very well. No problem with the Houston heat. Resale value does drop off with mileage. You don't see a great deal of 100K mile Ferraris, but I think that is more because they are babied than because they can't take it. Maybe 2K a year on average for light mileage. Depends on how often you change the belts and if you have any surprises. Some years may just be an oil change. There are many independent shops that can service these cars. No, but there were some advances made during the run. I think the belt change is easier on 02 and later spiders because the engine access was improved. The transmission control units on F-1 equipped cars were updated often. The buyer's guide sticky at the top of this section covers some of this. Fairly few. Manual or F-1. Manuals were only 15-20% of the run and are harder to find. Daytona seats are popular, but are just cosmetic compared to the regular seats. Factory installed scuderia shields on the front fenders (very popular). Rear challenge grill (black instead of body colored). Leather panel behind the seats instead of carpet. High-fi system (speakers between the seats). Color. Red commands a premium. What is important is up to you. I think you could find one with reasonable mileage for 90. autotrader, cars.com, dupontregistry, the classified section here Good luck with the search!
First read the sticky on the top of this section. It answers some of these questions. I had a 986 Boxster and the AC and heating in the 360 is much much better. As far as height, you should be fine. To be frank the 997 Turbo is a car that you could have as a DD. Its the only car that you'll need if you're into that kind of thing. It's "just another 911" to many people and you'll be able to park it anywhere, take it anywhere etc. The 360 will be another experience altogether. Nobody gave a rats about any of the Porsches I drove. Even other Porsche drivers don't wave. But the 360... every single drive, every day I have it out there is someone taking a picture or honking or making a comment. It's an experience with all the attention. Make sure you're ready for this. It may sound strange.. but its something that you need to be ready for. And that brings the DD experience. It's not as good a DD. It can be done, but its not as suitable. As dessert shouldn't be eaten for every meal. Operating costs.. think $2-3k every 3-5 years for belts. Fluids every year for about a grand or so. You can do in your garage if inclined. Where to buy? Ebay, Autotrader, cars.com, lemonfree, this site.. pretty much keep your eyes and ears open. Shopping can be fun. Have a list of must haves in the car.
Curt is correct on the attention. I would say if you are outside of Southern California you will get quite a bit of attention. The spider will be worse than the Modena. If you aren't ready for the attention you can go with a blue, silver or something like that. If you like cruising around with your windows down, you need to consider this.
Thanks very much for the quick and thorough answers. Looks like I came to the right place! And I'm hearing what I want to hear. My mind wants the 911 but my heart wants the 360. Your time is much appreciated. Cheers.
Thanks very much! If I may post a follow up question, is there any special scrutiny I need to apply to purchasing a 360, beyond the usual? I've never purchased an out-of-warranty sports car before. Normally I would run a car fax, inspect the service records, and just trust my evaluation of the look and sound of the car, and the look and sound of the owner ;-) And I'm already accustomed to an unusual amount of attention from driving the Lotus. I realize a 360 will be a different world, because I'm just as prone to gawking from my Elise when a Ferrari drives by as the next punter, but I have had a taste of what to expect. Yesterday I heard a shout from nowhere, "Beautiful car, man!". It was a guy working on overhead power lines. One other thing, the only car I've ever driven with paddle shifters, I hated, but I only had it for a week as a loaner when my car was having a major repair. It sounds like finding a standard is going to be difficult. Can a straight shift lover learn to love a 360 F1 transmission?
+1 I had a Testarossa in the 80's and the attention was the worst part of owning the car, and there were no shortage of worst moments.... I lived in Chicago and a popular resort area was/is Lake Geneva Wisconsin, about 90 miles away. One night while in the city some stranger came up to me and said "I saw you in Lake Geneva last night!" It got to the point where I just told people "I'm the valet parker" and walked away. Ferrari's are meant to be driven - and driven hard, unfortunately there are those who equate them with some kind of status symbol. Because paying the price of a good used car for a clutch change confers status upon the owner in the minds of some people I guess. Oh well. Ron 340 America 0142A - Sold Regrettably. Testarossa - Sold Thank God. Currently: Bob Jackson 10 Speed Monoposto Bicycle, 1965 Radio Flyer Wagon (original owner) and a bunch of things with 4 wheels.
I'm 6'6" and fit comfortably in my spider. A little tight with top up but still not an issue. You should fit like a glove.
Coincidentally someone asked me that yesterday (360 vs 911) and I told them the same thing: the heart wants the Ferarri. On the paddle shifters: my other sars are all manuals, I did tho get used to the paddle shifters immediately.
For 90K you are in the sweet spot for available cars IMO. You will be shopping at the well cared for end of the available pool. I think you should be able to find a manual car too if you take your time. Good luck!!!
Make sure you get a PPI don't trust anything else. A PPI may not catch anything but if they do catch something it can save you thousands. Check in the regions section of the website where the new car would be located. Ask them for someone to do the PPI. Sometimes the Ferrari dealer isn't the best option.
Amen to that. A correctly performed PPI could save you a lot of money; a bad one, don't ask ... That said, I love my spider despite the items that went unnoticed on my PPI. Sure, had the PPI uncovered some of the issues it probably would have allowed me to negotiate another ~$5K off the purchase price, but after nearly a year of looking for the right car and one and a half years of ownership, I try not to let that get in the way of appreciating what I have in my garage.
Thoughts on your comfort questions: -I'm 6' 4 and 235 lbs. and am amazed at how comfortable the car is. Seat, back and lumbar support are excellent. Lots of leg room. Have owned the car for a month and have driven it 600 miles so far, mostly on mountain roads. I was prepared to live with a cramped uncomfortable sports car (of which I have owned a few - mostly jags) but this was a very pleasant surprise. -The air conditioning and ventilation are superb. Another surprise for something I frankly hadn't even thought about. We recently took a drive through our eastern desert with the temp at about 112, and it was perfect. Keeps us comfortable with the top down in the heat too. Good luck with your search.
The 911 turbo will be a quicker car, but the Ferrari will bring more of a visceral experience with a lot more drama...especially when you wind the engine out to redline. Having been an owner of a 2012 911 Turbo S that was unbelievably quick off the line, I can tell you that the car never brought me any joy. It lasted 90 days in my possession before I traded it for something more exciting. Just not my cup of tea. I like cars with lots of drama, visceral excitement, fly by the seat of your pants...The 911 never did that for me. A great car...just not for me. Now, from reading your original post, I almost think that you are looking for something very civilized and different from the raw nature of the Lotus and perhaps the Porsche 911 is more of what you are actually looking for. If you can, test drive them and see what turns you on most.
Well, honestly I was originally going for something more comfortable, but I knew the 911 would never give me as big a smile on my face as driving the Elise. Truthfully, the thing I dislike most about the Elise is the AC. I tend to run hot, and not only is the AC weak on an Elise, but the radiator vents through the hood of the car and pours heated air into the cockpit when the top is down, and also the coolant hoses run through the aluminum tub on both sides of the cabin and even with the top up and the AC on high the car will gradually warm up on a hot day. The heat is also very weak in the winter. Consequently, I drive it a lot in the spring and fall, none in the winter, and only occasionally in the heat of the summer. Also, the top is a bit of a PITA, you have to stop and get out of the car to put it up or down. Aside from that, though, the car is the most fun to drive of anything I've every been in. And I love looking at it in the garage. I love parking it next to a 911 and people admiring my (now) $30K car and ignoring the $80K Porsche. Vanity? I guess so. Who owns a beautiful car that doesn't fall in love with the looks a little? So, the 360 seems to be perfect. The feel, the beauty, the sound, the experience seems like it would be equal or better than my Elise without the warts. Now that I've read these answers you folks have generously provided, I don't see how I could choose the 911. I also admit I was looking forward to the raw power of the Turbo, and if I had a magic wand I might wave it over a 360 and make it a little faster, but other than that I can't see me enjoying ownership of a 911 as much as a 360. Also, I finally read the sticky and realized I asked a lot of questions that were answered right at the top of the page. So I appreciate the answers in this thread even more. Sorry for the slow responses, I guess I'm still on probation and my posts are reviewed by a mod before being posted.
Looks like I'm on real time posting now, thanks! One thing I will mention, if any readers are lusting for a Ferrari but haven't saved up a big enough pile of money, try an Elise or an Exige. I don't believe there is an overall better driving experience out there for the money. Even if I have a 360 in the garage, I'll be sad to see my Elise drive away.
I think the thing I would have trouble getting used to is finding the paddles while shifting in a tight turn with the wheel not centered. I'm sure it comes with practice, but I never got the hang of it when I had a loaner. The Boxter I had for a week had the shift buttons on the wheel though, so maybe paddles on the column would be better.
Do you want a 6MT or paddle shift tranny? I don't think that you will miss any speed with the 360 as it is faster than your lotus with a symphony coming out of the engine! You will love it. I have a 430 Spider with 6MT and I drive it much more than my much faster 458...it is just so fun to drive manually rowing through the gears!
A la Jeremy Clarkston! So true because the only buddy that I have who owns a Lotus Exige is a 5'3" GIANT!
Actually I fit very comfortably into the Elise. If I put my feet onto the firewall with the seat all the way back my legs are stretched out. The only real problem is foot room for people with big feet. If I wear my street shoes in the Elise my toe will catch the top of the foot well when moving from the gas pedal to the brake. Not good. I have to wear very close fitting driving shoes or my favorite, toe shoes, to safely drive the Elise.
I would prefer a manual, but I get the impression here that so few were made that I might have difficulty finding a car I like with a manual. My first choice will be a manual but I'm trying to resolve myself to the idea of learning to like a paddle shift. I added a supercharger to my Elise so it is, at least according to published numbers, quicker than a 360 0-60, but nowhere near as fast at the top end. I never really consider top end performance though, I have no real desire to drive a car at kill-me speeds when it is at the very top of the envelope. You have a 430 and a 458? How very nice that must be.
Saudio, Remember that NOTHING corners like a Lotus...and I mean nothing. My buddy with the Lotus Exige just scares me when I am a passenger in his car. I would love to have one to track. If I may offer you some advise...if you want a 6 speed manual gated car, WAIT for the right car to come down the pike. Don't compromise! If you are a die hard manual guy, stick with it (no pun intended!) and wait for the right car. There is nothing like rowing through a Ferrari gated gear box! It is a unique experience and quite an eye catcher for others driving with you. That "click-click" sound when rowing through the gears in addictive!!! Kevin Revok and several other forum members have their fingers on the pulse of great available 6MT cars available for sale. I seem to recall just a day or so seeing a very nice 6MT car available for sale. Find the right car and have it shipped to you. You will be surprised once you shop around how cheap shipping will be (even overseas). You need to fill out your profile so that we can see where you are. Where do you live? Tell us who you are...We are all friends here.
Recent update to the available manual coupes. Charts are from the same data. It has been mentioned that the white chart is more useful but the black one shows the crossing point between miles and price to help determine if you are getting a good deal compared to the rest of the available cars, or at least that's how I see it. So anything under 80K with less than 22,000 miles is a good deal compared to the sample set (which is basically me finding cars when I see them on the web or mentioned in here somewhere). I will find my dedicated thread and pop this in there too. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
