Does anybody have information on how often the F1 pump should be running under a normal scenario? When first opening the driver-side door, my F360 would take about 8-10 seconds to charge up the pressure in the F1 system. Over the last year this time has probably doubled (say about 20 seconds now). The F1 pump is original but the electric motor is new. There are no external leaks in the system. Could this be an indication of internal seals in the actuator starting to leak? Any diagnostics that I can do to identify the direction of the problem?
20 seconds is too long but I would say it is more likely to be the pump head worn than an internal leak. I never really understand why people only change the pump motor. It should run about every second or third change if you go up and down the box.
People change the pump motor because it is typically the one to go and because changing the pump itself requires a re-bleeding of the system with a SD2...at least my understanding. In my case the motor was fine but it was the original one so it was a precautionary measure. There's also a timing that's measured with an SD2 of how often the pump should run with no activity, I guess that's a measure of the internal leak-through of the F1 system?
Is this the relay behind the passenger seats? If so, that has been changed recently with the upgraded version...
I was experienced every longer prime time after opening driver door. It was up to 16 seconds. From what I learned, it can be a number of things. The two most common, at least from what I have been able learn, are: 1. Internal bleed valves are leaking 2. Pump is going bad. The internal bleed valves are fairly easy to check and tighten. But, it is not a DYI job. The pump replacement is also fairly easy, but again, that is not a DIY job either. Both require a SD2 to do the job properly. The Ferrari part number pump cost mucho dineros. The exact same pump and motor for Alfa Romeo and other cars is much less costly. Look on eBay in UK or other sources in Europe for the Alfa Romeo Selespeed P/N 51736315. As I stated, I was experienced same problems you are having. I purchased a Selespeed pump from a supplier in the UK for less than $250. The prices have gone up since I got mine, but I believe you can still get one from the UK for less than $350. Make sure you request that they take off the VAT if you make inquiries. My techs put the SD2 on the car and while idling they noted that the F1 system was not holding pressure as it should. It kept pumping up and bleeding down too rapidly. After replacing the pump and my techs checking the bleed valves, my prime time after opening the driver's door is 8 seconds ... which agrees with everyone that this is about right. By the way, when you replace the pump, get a new F1 pump relay and replace it as well. Regards, Steve
Thanks Steve -- very good info. I did buy the pump motor from Europe and changed it while keeping the pump connections; this way it did not require a re-bleeding of the F1 system. The F1 pump relay was changed as well to the newest highest Amp model... With regards to internal valves, I thought these were not serviceable? If looking at the following diagram: http://www.eurospares.co.uk/userImages/008/Large/008_031.gif or here: http://aldousvoice.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/f1-system.jpg Are the bleed valve leaks inside the actuator arm or inside the power system? I know the actuator can be rebuilt but I Wasn't sure it can be adjusted. Not sure about the power system...
Ok, made me go check..... 2004 360 spyder, 15k miles Cold, open door, F1 pump ran 8.6 seconds to prime.
I would think that if you had an actuator problem that you would have problems selecting gears.I think you most likely have a problem with your accumulator. thats what holds the pressure.Its that little black blub.I'm somewhat having the same problem my pump keeps priming and all my gears work fine. my pump motor is also new.I just orderd a new accumulator and i will keep you posted.
The pump motor will not compensate for a wearing/worn pump. The rate of pressure increase in the system is controlled as much by pump head wear as potential leaks. The pump will run for longer to reach the full pressure if it is worn internally. I don't understand the reason people change only the pump motor rather than the full pump. I know you have to break into the system but it is still worth doing. You have to do that to change the accumulator. A tech can monitor the prssure rise and hold on an SD to determine of there is an internal leak. These cars are getting quite old now and deserve a few new bits every now and then
Ken Why would the fuse have any effect on the run time of the pump? IMO Fuse or relay shouldn't have any effect at all. Alan
I think the idea is that the older style relay was starving the pump of current so upgrading it will help in terms of making sure it delivers the right amperage to the circuit...this may be more of an issue for pre-2003 cars which had the old style relay from the factory (?).
Ah okay I could see that the relay would make a difference but not the fuse. I purchased a BMW ABS relay but haven't changed it out yet. Alan
The relay is not going starve the pump of current. The reason for the upgraded relay is to provide greater capacity without arching across the contacts. That relay gets lots of on/off cycles and over time any arching can eventually fuse the contacts ... at which point the pump will not shut off and burn out. Steve
Ok, I had it wrong -- so one way to see whether the relay is bad is that the pump is constantly running (say with the driver's door open), regardless of whether the system is charged up or not...
Yes it is an upgrade. OEM is an X203 relay and the BMW relay is an X152 with more hardened contacts. Even better is an X266 relay, but those are around $50 and hard to find. That is what is in mine. The X152 should work fine for a long time.
Okey, thanks tazandjan. I was skeptical when i saw the Bmw label. Okey, change every 2 year is okey i guess
A new Accumulator fixed my problem. The problem i had was that my pump would keep priming every three seconds .As time went on it was taking longer and longer 8 to 10 blinks to prime then every three seconds.i took it to the dealer and had an sd scan ,i had every code in the book. they wernt sure of the problem and they told me i may need a new clutch.I new that was a bunch of BS...because i knew i had a pressure problem.I then tried a new pump and relay parts that i had.same problem still.I also knew that i didnt have an actuator problem because i got all the gears and my car did not pop out of gear.I then orderd an accumulator from recambi under $ 400.00 installed it in 10 min bled the system.problem is now fixed and my car primes in one blink and re primes three min later at idle.My car is a 1999 355f1 with a 360 pump update.I think i sign of your accumulator going is how long it can hold pressure before the pump has to re prime again and how many blinks it takes when its cold.
Is the accumulator the bulb shaped storage tank? that's on top of the power unit? If so are these sold separately? I think on the 360 this is shown as part of the power unit which is a 27K part at Ricambi
