360 F1 or 6 Speed Manual

Yes.. needing an SD2 to scan the car and indicate why the computer is refusing to allow the car to be put into gear is so much cheaper over time. As you can see the F1 transmission never has any issues by exploring this site. Talk to the mechanic that will be servicing the car when you own it and solicit his/her opinion.

 

Initially my criteria for a Ferrari was it "has to be a manual". However, after driving the F1 (in a F430) I love the system. Purists may think its not true driving, but I love it.

 

Ben, I would worry less about this in a car that was owned by fewer people. With the right drivers I would say that a 30K transmission might shift better than a new one. I am guessing on this but perhaps some high mileage guys can comment on needing to replace transmission parts? I don't read a lot of stories on here about replacing these parts but admittedly a lot of drivers don't rack up many miles.

 

I'm up to 52,900 ish. No problems so far. Did get a transmission light once when the fluid got slightly low. I love manuals, but i've got to say, the F1 is engaging, especially when your pushing the car a little. The downshifts are so amazing sounding.

 

Look at my avatar, that's my answer.

Downshifts can be just as fun and more rewarding than an F1 if you master heel toeing.

 

Agree 100%

 

Agree

Agree

Agree

 

Ben- From your post, you do not seem to know the F1 and three pedal Ferraris offered with F1 have exactly the same transmission and clutch. Only the shifter and throw-out bearings are different, plus a couple of sensors. So the synchros are identical, too.

 

I had the same concerns about mileage when I bought my gated 360, it had a little under 40k km. My view has since changed. These cars need to be driven regularly for them to be in good running condition. Yes, there would be more wear and tear, but often they would be more mechanically sound.

 

There are two arguments, mostly unrelated. Do you like manual or automatic? There are good arguments on both sides and only you can decide. The other question is this: "Do you want to own an F-1 style automatic transmission or not?"

Look at this forum or any other Ferrari forum and you'll see a lot of posts related to various problems with the F-1 transmission, particularly with the part that does the actual shifting. Remember the two transmissions are nearly identical. There are apparently not so many problems with the manual version, judging from the number of posts.

Personally, I insisted on a manual for my 360. Now I'm shopping for a Porsche Cayman and I'm specifically looking for an automatic, but in this case it's Porsche's dual clutch system, an entirely different approach to automatic transmissions than what you find in the Ferrari 360. In fact, some might argue that the manual Cayman is less reliable because the shifter cables break so frequently while the automatic transmission works all the time; i.e. just the opposite from the Ferrari 360 transmission choices.

In other words, if the 360 had a modern dual clutch transmission I personally would give it serious consideration. But with the F-1 tranny, I strongly to prefer the manual.

Others, as you might expect, feel that the F-1 is just great and some drive for many miles without problems. But it's hard to argue that the F-1 is more reliable ON AVERAGE than the manual and most would agree that clutch wear is greater ON AVERAGE with the F-1. Do your own research and make up your own mind, but now you have my two cents worth.

I'll add the two cents to your next F-1 transmission repair bill.

 

Manual all day.

The OP's worry about the syncros are unwarranted. Not an issue.

 

I'd like to add some correction to the terminology of some posts. Although not written in stone, "automatic" generally references a car with a torque converter, not a clutch. There is a big difference in my opinion, rather than a fluid connection between the engine and drivetrain, there is a clutch against a flywheel. For instance speaking to Porsche, there automatic is a Tiptronic which has a torque converter, and their PDK has a clutch, or two to be specific. The difference in this discussion is wether or not the action to do the gear change is mechanically and electronically assisted V.S. Full manual.

Historically there have a been a few Ferraris that have come with an automatic, but never a 360, and nothing in recent years.

 

The F1 in a 430, from what I have read, is quite a bit improved over what was offered in the 360 so not sure you are comparing apples to apples.

 

Agree 100%. But drive both and decide.

 

I looked at both 360s and 430s. I agree, there was a significant refinement in the F1 transmissions between the two models.

I test drove 2-3 360s with F1 transmissions. They felt like each and every time I shifted (especially at higher RPM) I was leaving bits of metal behind me on the road. It was very disconcerting for me. By comparison the 430 is a lot smoother. The F1 on a 430 kicks you in the pants only when you get on it hard and shift above 7K.

FWIW, if you are going to buy a 360, go 3 pedal. If you are going to buy a 430, go with the F1.

 

I went with a 3 pedal for a more engaging driving experience and only miss a paddle shift when I am really driving hard on twisting roads where I don't really want to remove one hand from the wheel. Other than that one small item, I love my gated shifter....

 

As usual, the manual crowd is the vocal minority. I say minority since there are about 4 F1 cars for every manual. YET, there are several manual cars that sit unsold for long periods.

With 4x the production and a lot of people who never go to an experienced person to get their F1 set up properly, you would expect to have a lot more threads about issues. Plus, let's face it, the manual guys don't want to post "I had my transmission rebuilt ...." There is too much FUD about impact on value for that to happen.

I agree that you can make the manual's clutch last longer. On that front I would say: if you put 2K per year on your car (a lot by the average out there) and a clutch lasts only 20K you still made it 10 years. Do you really care if it makes it 12 before something else fails?

It is clear to me that the F1 is only as good as the setup. I have found that my dealer can't set up an F1 properly, I use a good indi. The problem is that your mechanic MUST have an SD and has to know these cars very well. If you don't have that guy or can't get to him if needed neither of the versions is going to be a satisfying experience.

Drive them both and get the one that you like.

 

Why is the F-1 more reliable than the (3 pedal) manual? There are fewer parts and no F-1 pump to go wrong. The 3 pedal is the same sans the F-1 mechanicals. That seems counter-intuitive to me. What's the explanation?

The clutch wear difference I understand, although I would think that would depend a lot on who is driving the 3 pedal.

 

I think you misread his post. He is saying that arguing the F1 is more reliable is difficult.

 

The question I have is how many "inexperienced drivers" buy a stick Ferrari? I doubt, but I could be wrong, that many people who have driven an automatic and can't drive stick buy a Ferrari and say "I think I'll learn how to drive stick on this car". Granted a guy taught his son to drive stick on his 430 and lord knows what Doug Demuro's clutch looks like..

 

I haven't noticed that the manual cars sit for longer but if it's true it could be that the sellers are pricing them at a premium compared to a similarly spec'd or more heavily optioned F-1 car. Those of us who have the cars already know how awesome they are but the armchair quarterbacks on the sidelines might be wasting valuable cruising time by worrying over every nuance like if it has shields...oh my first Ferrari must have shields!
Dont worry guys, e v e r y o n e will know it's a Ferrari. EVERY drive no matter how short will be a pagent and you are center stage. If you have a racing exhaust they will hear you coming and feel you as you pass by and they will be forever changed by the car if it has shields or not. They can be added but sometimes it's good to try and tone down the spectacle!

Or...I must have Daytona seats because they look cool. In reality they look cool in a car where you actually can see them....like maybe in a convertible but once you shoe horn yourself in to a Modena; because you parked too close to the wall so no one will ding your car the only thing you will care about is the condition of the bolster because that's all you will see! LOL

Above all else the car is a exemplary execution of engineering and when you find some time to enjoy it and a nice road NONE of those little details you worried over will matter at all. Sans a nice racing exhaust! I am partial to stick, that's my particular kink. I want that tie to the past. I want that engagement to the mechanicals. To me the car is complex enough so I like less "systems" between myself and the engine and the car and the road. I also like less maintenance, but that appeals to my practical side.

 

+1! Fred

 

I am 6'9" tall, when I sit in the 360 with F1 my knees are touching the paddles, just my two cents on why I went with a 3 pedal car.