aftermarket headers | FerrariChat

aftermarket headers

Discussion in '360/430' started by bocaf430, Oct 18, 2014.

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  1. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,361
    LI, boca raton
    I am looking to change out my stock headers in case they are to crack to fabspeed headers.. my question is.. do I need the header blanket? I wont be tracking my car, one of my mechanics said I should get the blankets so it contains the heat so other parts around the engine do not get damaged, another mechanic does not think the blankets are needed.. he also feels the heat with increase with the blankets around the headers... any thoughts? anyone here change out to aftermarket have any answers for me.. have you had any issues? thanks
     
  2. Tally Ho

    Tally Ho Formula Junior

    Jul 4, 2007
    719
    Niceville, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I'm running Fabspeed headers without blankets on my 07 F430. I am in Florida and do not notice any excessive heat. I ran all summer with no issues. The consensus I received was if you track or race, then the blankets would help. I also replaced the silencer with Fabspeed's sport x-pipe and find that it cools down much quicker than the stock silencer.
     
  3. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,361
    LI, boca raton
    is the car much louder with the x pipe style exhaust? I don't want a loud car
     
  4. Tally Ho

    Tally Ho Formula Junior

    Jul 4, 2007
    719
    Niceville, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Only at idle and when you hit high RPMs. On the street for everyday driving it's fine. No drone and no cabin intrusion. Open it up and screams like a Ferrari should.
     
  5. Russell996

    Russell996 Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2010
    2,263
    New Forest UK
    Full Name:
    Russell
    Heat is the enemy in the engine bay, anything to reduce it would seem sensible. The headers are designed to work with blankets. Lots of threads on here about Fabspeed, Agency Power, Capristo etc.
    For the 430 make sure you are getting what you expect when you buy your headers. ;)
     
  6. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,361
    LI, boca raton
    so header blankets should be used?
     
  7. mountainman3520

    mountainman3520 Karting

    Nov 11, 2013
    202
    Silicon Valley, Cali
    Full Name:
    Dan Gilley
    Does the stock design include header blankets? I recommend following stock design decisions by Ferrari engineers unless something has been proven to have a design issue that must be fixed.

    Another way to look at it: what's the downside of including header blankets? If they have very little downside and potentially keep your engine bay cooler, them that seems like an easy decision.
     
  8. RonnieRenaldi

    RonnieRenaldi F1 Rookie

    Aug 16, 2004
    2,685
    #8 RonnieRenaldi, Oct 19, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
    No blankets on mine and just fine.
    I took the car for a 4-hrs drive to a 12000-ft mountain and back, no prob whatsoever.
     
  9. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,529
    the heat has to go somewhere, with blankets it gets driven partially back into the heads. More heat in the engine equals more power, and less life. How much less is unknown to me, but its less.

    without, you can melt the parking brake cable like i did, i run no blankets, but i had to replace the brake cable and add shielding to it, almost $2k, took the caliper out as well..
     
  10. Russell996

    Russell996 Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2010
    2,263
    New Forest UK
    Full Name:
    Russell

    Stock headers have metal heat shielding to protect the engine bay - the engine is designed to work with heat shielded headers and won't be damaged. The blankets are simply an improved version of this heat shielding that can be removed to check the headers in situ. Running without heat shielding will result in damage just as you have experienced.
     
  11. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,361
    LI, boca raton
    Ok thanks so if I do buy aftermarket headers, I will buy the heat blankets as well..
     
  12. mountainman3520

    mountainman3520 Karting

    Nov 11, 2013
    202
    Silicon Valley, Cali
    Full Name:
    Dan Gilley
    Good decision. Better safe than sorry on something like this.

    The fact that people have run their car for a few hours without header heat shielding/blankets and without something in the engine immediately failing is very weak evidence that its okay to run without shielding/blankets. Was anything damaged that may now fail in a year instead of ten years? Maybe some insulation got melted that later could cause a short? Maybe some plastic was damaged such that it is now brittle and will crack in a few months?

    If someone really wanted to collect decent evidence, they would need to place thermocouples all over the engine bay and run a series of tests with and without header shielding, repeating the same pattern of cool-off and heat-up, to see if the heat distribution in the engine is identical, better, or worse.

    Every part in the engine bay is designed to function in a certain way, for a certain period of time, over a certain temperature range. Engineers spec every one of these details during the design process and make their component selections accordingly. They select the insulation on wires, the material in gaskets, the plastics, etc. and take careful measurements under extreme circumstances to ensure their assumptions and thermal models are correct, and that all the parts are operating within their designed specifications.

    When engineers screw up this process is what causes us to sometimes have parts that consistently suffer premature failure.

    It's definitely not a good idea to make large changes to the thermal situation in the engine bay with zero data other than that a few owners made a similar change and nothing immediately failed after a few hours of driving.
     
  13. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    8,682
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    While I agree that one should consider blankets unless they are building a track car I think you are seriously overestimating the effort that goes into thermal engineering. The complexity of setting up this type of problem, let alone solving it, is beyond most tools and definitely WAY beyond what they could hope to recover. They have a good idea what the operating temp will be and things are specified to work in that range BUT I highly doubt that they actually attempt to model the heat loads.
     
  14. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    3,253
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Glen
    Stainless steel (or the active component, chrome) resists heat so more heat goes out your exhaust and less soaks through the pipes. So stainless steel is an upgrade from steel with regards to heat in the engine bay. But the stock exhaust has steel heat shields as mentioned. Would be interesting to check temps around the headers with a heat gun before and after fitting stainless pipes and see. Stainless sports cats manufactures often advertise less heat and they are not wrapped or shielded.
     
  15. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 21, 2011
    3,843
    Lake County, IL
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    Spiro
    What about ceramic coated headers?
     
  16. mountainman3520

    mountainman3520 Karting

    Nov 11, 2013
    202
    Silicon Valley, Cali
    Full Name:
    Dan Gilley
    The ceramic coated parts are matte black, right?

    Black is the most efficient radiator and absorber of heat. Hence in this case it would do a more efficient job of radiating heat out of the hot headers into the cooler engine bay, which is what you don't want. You want the headers to retain the heat and blow it out the exhaust instead of dumping it into the engine bay.

    I think the argument for black ceramic coated headers is to keep the appearance consistent and avoid discoloration and tarnishing of the stainless steel by the heat and dirt in the engine bay. But thermally, the black doesn't seem like an advantageous choice.

    As an example, the side of the shields or blankets that face toward the headers are probably shinny reflective silver, not black, for exactly this reason.
     
  17. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Oct 21, 2011
    3,843
    Lake County, IL
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    Spiro
    The finish can vary. Mine are a chrome looking finish. They are sitting in a box awaiting installation.
     
  18. mountainman3520

    mountainman3520 Karting

    Nov 11, 2013
    202
    Silicon Valley, Cali
    Full Name:
    Dan Gilley
    What did you buy and what was the rationale for selection?
     
  19. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 21, 2011
    3,843
    Lake County, IL
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    Spiro
    Firstly, my car (430 spider) is on it's 3rd set of manifolds. The first 2 were Gen 1 and the current ones are Gen 2. This was all done before I had acquired the car. After I bought the car, I installed the Capristo brackets, but after reading your posts, I my end up going with the original mounting hardware.

    I decided to go with headers for 3 reasons: Eliminate the potential engine damage form pre-cat fragmentation, the sound compared to stock manifolds, and performance boost.

    After much research, I purchased the Agency Power headers. They seem to be identical to the Fabspeed headers and are around $1100 less. I decided to go with the "hi polish" ceramic coating to reduce engine bay temperature. My understanding is the coating does not allow for as much radiant heat, allowing more of it to escape through the tailpipe.

    Blast away!
     
  20. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,361
    LI, boca raton
    sckoms... I would like to know the outcome, being I also have a spider, and want to buy headers and blanket... It does look like the fabspeed and agency power are the same, but does anyone know for sure? it's a good chunk of change difference between the two brands...
     
  21. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    i have capristo blankets for my headers & cats. it reduces the heat in the engine bay dramatically and in turn protects my carbon from fading / hazing.
     
  22. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,361
    LI, boca raton
    freshmeat which brand of blanket? capristo?
     
  23. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    Yea, are there other tuners who offer a full header-cat setup? I didn't know any back when I was doing my research.
     
  24. bocaf430

    bocaf430 Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2014
    1,361
    LI, boca raton
    I don't know about cats.. but fabspeed makes the headers and a blanket, I think the capristo blanket looks to be a better deign and material
     
  25. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    yep and proven. and oh, i was surprised when i got them in the mail, but they have some weight to them!

    happy motoring!
     

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