Possible ECU gone bad - What's your diagnosis? | FerrariChat

Possible ECU gone bad - What's your diagnosis?

Discussion in '360/430' started by GWARREND, Oct 20, 2014.

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  1. GWARREND

    GWARREND Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2012
    525
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #1 GWARREND, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Last night after a drive downtown and dinner the car would not start...then when I finally got it started it was running rough (sounded like 4 cylinders) with ASR flashing on the dash. I was not able to give it any gas and had to have it towed home.

    OBD code read 1628 in the morning and car would not start with clicking left side throttle body. - very similar to this post.
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q-sponsored-algar-ferrari/377562-360-spider-f1-2003-wont-rev-past-1200-rpm.html

    I tried swapping the ECUs and it still would not start. Swapped ECUs produce codes 1634 and 1635. The leftside throttle body still clicking when ECUs swapped though quieter.

    Any ideas?

    Here is a vid of the clicking..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4OlqS0ucQE&feature=youtu.be
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. hangarsixco

    hangarsixco Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2010
    396
    S. California
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Could be a bad relay or faulty connection to the ECU, I would start testing your relays. Your symptoms sound as if one of your motronic ECU's not functioning. I would start at the battery and make sure your getting 12V and work your way back to the relays and fuses to the motronics. There is a relay for both motronic units if you swap them and does the same thing then the fault is in that side of the wiring Relay fuse connections etc.

     
  3. GWARREND

    GWARREND Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2012
    525
    Ontario, Canada
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    Greg
    Thank you. Will Multimeter the battery then prob have to take it to my tech. Sounds complicated. Last time I tried this sort of thing I blew up our fridge. LOL.
     
  4. hangarsixco

    hangarsixco Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2010
    396
    S. California
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Nooooooo! not the fridge, were you able to at least save the beer? LOL

    these cars can have unsuspecting electrical gremlins, definitely want to have someone who is comfortable working with automotive electrical systems taking a look at it. imagine what the new Hybrid cars are doing to the auto electric business. I do not even want to think about messing with one of those.

    either way i hope its just an electrical connection or a bad relay/fuse and you can be back on the road soon.

    Let us know how it turns out.

    Chris.

     
  5. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    15,875
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    If you haven't worked from the fuse backward yet.. that's what I would do. Start with both fuses and reseat them, then go to the relay 55 p4.23 in manual and relay 88. Check that they're working. If not that.. then I might consider a bad ECU..
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Test the entire CAN buss.

    Sounds like a comm breakdown in the CAN system.
     
  7. GWARREND

    GWARREND Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2012
    525
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Thanks everyone. FChat FTW!

    Car is on a flatbed enroute to my tech. Will update what the Leo says.
     
  8. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,506
    Somewhere, anywhere
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    Eddie B
    Yes, or a duff motronic power micro relay.
     
  9. GWARREND

    GWARREND Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2012
    525
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #9 GWARREND, Oct 21, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
    Left bank ECU is done. Figured as much...had a problem with it early last summer. Only problem I have had with my 360 car.

    Anyone know if inoperable ECUs are repairable / reprogrammable?
     
  10. hangarsixco

    hangarsixco Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2010
    396
    S. California
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I Greg,

    I'm curious to know how the ECU was determined the issue. My understanding of these motronics a is that they either work or don't, you mentioned you had issues last summer with that ECU. Could you have a possible short or a bad relay with your wiring that is causing your ECU to shut down or short it out.

    Rifledriver/Rustybits is it normal for the ECU to just fail without any kind of short or connection problem? (What's normal) I guess could be said.

    Would love to know if there is more to your problem than just an ECU.

     
  11. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,336
    On the Limit
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    Dino
    I think I saw some 360 ECU's in the parts ads area.
     
  12. hakankuy

    hakankuy Karting

    Jun 15, 2010
    127
    Earth
    Some guys can repair/update Bosch ECUs. I know a few in UK which are good.
    Instrument Cluster Repair Services - Cluster Repairs UK

    ATP Electronics - ECU Testing ,Remanufacturing and Repair -Leading European ECU Remanufacturers - Remanufacturing Process

    In case you need new ecus there are a few in the market came from CS Racing exhaust kit.
    I.e. i did not install that ecus (f1 US var version) as my ecus have modified before. If you cannot find them in nearer place let me know I can sell them at a fraction of list price.

    Good luck
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    Most of those rebuild services will not work on Motronic ECUs according to the pros who have tried.
     
  14. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie

    Jun 18, 2008
    2,792
    Henderson, NV
    Full Name:
    Roberto Bellezza
    I have a brand new set of ECU's from the racing exhaust system that i couldn't use due to my car been a Euro model and FNA won't program them. I could sell them to you and have them flashed with your Vin # if you want to go that way. PM me if you are interested. Well, this is if your car is a US model ...
     
  15. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    Jan 28, 2007
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    Yes Terry, the three I have tried promised much and delivered nothing!
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    And that has been my experience too and not just Motronics. I am 0 for 0 on everthing I have sent.

    Near as I can tell they are making a living "Fixing" ECU's that were a victim of an incorrect diagnosis.

    The don't charge me but we do a dance for a week or so.
     
  17. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    576
    North east, USA
    If one ECU is working - it is fairly easy to re flash another one with the same software. The functioning ECU needs to be read- EEPROM & maps. 2 different memories. The that program would need to be flashed onto the replacement. I have not tried using different Ferrari part numbers- there are a bunch. The right side ECU is the one which commicates with the immobilizer. The software on the left and right is identical.

    Search for a thread- how to bench flash a 360- on that other forum, Google will find it.
    360trev- did an awesome diy guide and it works perfectly.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    Last time I looked Eric and Trev were still trying to get it right and had not quite gotten there. You have different experience?
     
  19. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    576
    North east, USA
    Using Trev's bench setup and detailed instructions - we have been able to read both the EEPROM - immo related data and the actual software. I have not re-flashed my ecu's yet because I'm still looking for a software immo defeat for the 360 CH car. I don't know if it will be applicable to the 360 Modena or the other models with the same ECU/Immo combination. I can't find anything that would prevent it from working.

    I have one more track event this week, then will be re flashing an EU street car ECU to Challenge Car software with my immobilizer still intact and testing. If it all works, then yes we have a solution for an ECU replacement without using an Fcar stealer, I mean dealer.

    I was hoping to test this on the same Ferrari part numbered ECU, but don't have an extra from a CH car. Many people have been doing this for quite a while(Alfa, Citreon, Renault, all ME7.3.1H4) but I don't know if any of us have had a reason to attempt on an Fcar, as a bad result is quite expensive.

    I know my immobilizer is failing, sometimes it does not start all 8 cyl, so I figured either way, I need a solution, and I'm sure others will be in the same situation.

    With the problem GWARREND described - IF CORRECT ABOUT THE BAD ECU???? - he doesn't really have anything to lose as the dealer solution will cost the same if he attempts to repair or not. Did anyone check the wiring connections - they fail more then ecu's.

    If he wants I would do a read on both ecu's, if the data does not match 100% to the bit then ECU is faulty. If it does read then I would be looking for the problem somewhere else.

    We are making progress...
     
  20. hangarsixco

    hangarsixco Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2010
    396
    S. California
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Asked a similar question, still waiting for an answer. Im curious to know how the ECU was diagnosed as faulty. I'm thinking faulty connection. Just my opinion.

    "With the problem GWARREND described - IF CORRECT ABOUT THE BAD ECU???? - he doesn't really have anything to lose as the dealer solution will cost the same if he attempts to repair or not. Did anyone check the wiring connections - they fail more then ecu's."


     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    RMJr- Your immobilizer has nothing to do with how the car starts, only if it does start. The Alarm ECU/immobilizer sends an OK to start signal to the right Motonic ECU and that is its only function on start. Take her to somebody who can diagnose what your start problem is, because it is not the immobilizer if you are getting any spark and fuel.
     
  22. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    576
    North east, USA
    My car always starts, but sometimes only on one bank - Bank0(left side), the right side can be troublesome. A full reset - ignition off, main power off, has always fixed the issue.
    According to my guy, when the immobilizer is tripped (i.e. the communication between the right side ecu and immo box behind the drivers seat fails) the immo box will turn off the right side fuel pump and the car becomes a 4 cyl. That does seem to be my issue.

    Is that information incorrect?

    I should have plugged the car into a diagnostic scanner when she doesn't start properly to confirm the issue is immo related, but time prevented it. There isn't an LED in the CH cars to let you know that the issue is immo and after it "corrects itself" it doesn't leave a fault code in the ECU.

    Either way the immo is nothing but trouble on a Challenge car, it should not have been installed at the factory and does not belong. I enjoy a "challenge"(pun intended) and the sucker needs to go - that's 1/2# savings - .000001sec faster.
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    If your immobilizer was bad, she would not start at all. On some Ferraris, 550s for example, the engine will not even turn over with the immobilizer armed. On 575Ms, she will turn over, but not start.

    Easy to diagnose yourself. Get in while the immobilizer is armed (wait 120 seconds after disarming the alarm) and try to start her. I will bet you she just turns over and nothing happens as the immobilizer disables the entire ignition/injection system.
     
  24. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Feb 24, 2004
    1,654
    Ratarossa HQ UK
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    Ratarossa
    ---------


    Did you ever have any success with this ECU flash ?
     

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