My car is with the dealers again and they have found one fuel pump is at 4 bar, and the other at 2 bar. So could this cause a slight fuel smell, and throw the CEL? The dreaded P1154. I have a hunch that they might have nailed my problem at last. Here's hoping anyway.
I hope so Graham, but a fuel smell means raw fuel is leaking somewhere, usually the top of the fuel pump or the rollover valves from what I have read. I'm replacing both pumps and RO valves as part of my 12 year maintenance plan...
Yeh I checked those roll over valves a while ago and they seemed dry, and I couldn't smell anything either. That's not to say they have issues though.
As I have mentioned on my previous post, 1 month after ownership (I bought my 2003 360 F1 8 months ago with only 10K miles) my right fuel pump failed. It started leaking fuel. Removed and replaced. Done. (Spent $2K at the dealership.) 6 months later, 16K miles on the clock the left fuel pump and 2 roll over valves started leaking fuel. Left fuel pump and all 4 roll over valves replaced. (Spent $4K at the dealership.) I hope they finally figure out the root cause of your CEL. Dan
Low fuel pressure = lean condition = ECU adjust = CEL. Very plausible. Bad pump may be leaking causing the smell and pressure drop. Fingers crossed they are on to it.
I'm not certain those are roll over valves on top of the fuel pump. Just a hose connection going to the fuel rail....yes/no??
They two I know of aren't on top of the fuel pump, they are under the black plastic panel a couple inches to the front of the fuel pump access cover. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/360-430/1848883d1393545537-2002-360-spider-gas-smell-img_1307.jpg
Just for future viewers: There are three plastic components in each fuel pump on either side of the car. There is a big white or orange-ish plastic about 6 to 8 inches around with a plastic "ring" holding it in place. This is the fuel pump on each side. On each side there are two roll over valves. One is on a "plate" screwed into the gas tank with the fuel pump. One is located in the fuel tank itself. These roll over valves are about 4-5 inches in diameter and will be a white or orange-ish color. All of these components has a hose coming from it. The fuel pump has a grey plastic connector and a hose going right to the fuel rail. The elevated 1 inch round top of the fuel pump is a pressure relief valve that is built into the pumps plastic top. The roll over valves have hoses that go to the vapor rail in front of the engine below the window in the firewall or to the carbon canister. Their function is to provide a vapor release for the tank when the car is upright, and then to block the flow of fuel when the tank is upside down in a rollover. If the plastic of the pump cracks, that means fuel is under pressure and can squirt from the pump. If the rollover valve is cracked, it will be gas vapor that escapes.. itself being potentially a fire risk. Old plastic is a white color. Revised "new" pumps use an orange colored plastic. On coupes you have to remove the engine panels to see the pump and valves. On convertibles there may be a panel below the top of not for the valves. Apologies.. I have a coupe and am more familiar with it..
Here is a good picture showing where all 4 RO valves are... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/360-430/1549333d1341675552-evap-valves-dreaded-p0455-error-fifth.jpg
That's my feeling as well. Makes sense. Man it'll be great to have a car where the only lights that come on are indicators and anything else that is supposed to come on!
2004 360 spyder 15k miles did a couple of those "stumble starts" then one day would not start proper. It was obvious only one side was running. Shipped it off to the dealer, found a bad fuel pump, 6 weeks later ($1,800) the car was repaired, just in time for winter storage. Not a fun way to end this year's driving season.
Sorry to hear....... Looks like average life of these fuel pumps is around 20K miles / 10 years. Mine is a 2003 360 Spider, 19K miles. Both fuel pumps have failed and have just been replaced including the 4 roll over valves. Almost $6K to remove and replace both fuel pumps and 4 roll over valves at the dealership. Luckily I found 2 local reputable independent mechanics that I can take my car for future repairs that charges much more reasonable than the dealership. Dan
Chalk me up as another one who's had to replace fuel pumps.... both of mine had catastrophically failed and were leaking badly when I first bought the car.... Apparently caused by dry seals through lack of use, a replacement pair of pumps and the car has run perfectly ever since.
Sorry to hear..... Thanks for sharing info Derek. Can you tell us what model year and how much mileage your car had when the fuel pumps failed? Dan
I have a 2001 360 Spider 6MT, she had a little under 5,000 miles on when I bought her with failed pumps, I don't know when they actually failed but I know she'd not turned a wheel in nearly 4 years, quite possibly longer. I suspect the lack of use was the cause of the failure
As we all know the dealers charge a lot more for their parts and labor..... Also, on the spider the roof has to come out to replace the roll over valves. For some of us (like me) that either doesnt have the knowledge or time to do the replacement ourselves, and in the absence of a reputable independent Ferrari mechanic close to our home we dont have much choice but to just take it to the dealer and eat their costs. Thanks to this board, I learned and now know how to replace the fuel pumps myself and I also found two very reputable independent mechanic close to my home that can do the replacement for me at much lower costs. Dan
