Timing belt change, left side loose | FerrariChat

Timing belt change, left side loose

Discussion in '360/430' started by RossoC360, Mar 20, 2015.

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  1. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
    475
    Buffalo NY
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    Jason
    Im in the middle of doing the timing belt change on my 360, I noticed that the passengers side belt was quite a bit looser than the drivers side (correct tension). Im thinking im going to replace both tensioners anyway at this point. Have you guys seen this? Do you generally just replace one or both at the same time? Thanks Jay
     
  2. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2005
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    John Zornes
    How are you determining that they are looser if they have the correct tension? Sounds contradictory.

    How are you checking the tension?
     
  3. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    Checked with a belt tension meter, the drivers side is correct, passengers side quite a bit looser.
     
  4. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    Jason
    I should clarify, when i said left side in the title i meant looking at the motor, which i believe is actually considered the right hand side (passengers side)
     
  5. jackgt

    jackgt Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2015
    499
    california
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    Jack
    To say which bank it is you always look at the engine with you sitting in the car. what kind of meter are you using? I have an android phone and I guess you can download some kind harmonic meter on an I phone but don't know about an android. It is hard to say why one would be loose. You would have to assume that both tightened by the same method. Just thank your lucky stars that it did not slip if it was real loose!!
     
  6. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    Jason
    I have two belt frequency meters an spx and a motoreva, Can anyone verify that the passengers side is the "right" side when ordering parts?>
     
  7. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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    I am not a pro. Wait for the real pros to chime in.

    May not have been tensioned properly last time?? In my experience (ONE time) ... I would replace both tensionier bearings, and belts. I would install everything. And spin the motor, determine if the tension is still proper with the proper clearance as described I. The ws manual. May need a little tweak, but if not staying within specs then replace the hydraulic tensionier. I don't believe both have to be replaced, and I only replaced my left (cylinder 5-8 bank).

    Also you should be able to see if the tensionier is completely toast, compare it to the other side for hydraulic resistance and travel. If in doubt replace it.

    I also seem to recall there is a simple algorithm in the ws manual for determining if it needs to be replaced, but don't quote me on that. I will check when I am home.


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  8. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
    475
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    thanks for the reply, im headed back to the shop shortly, im going to rotate the engine to see if the tension shifts and investigate further
     
  9. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    If in doubt call or check part # at ricambi and use as a reference when ordering even elsewhere. Also I know there have been a few iterations of the tensioniers I believe for the left (5-8 bank). See the ferrari service bulletin.


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  10. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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  11. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    I used a free iPhone app ( not sure if android has the same) iAnalize lite. I experimented with it extensively. I compared it to a Ducati belt frequency meter that I borrowed from my buddy who is a Ducati mechanic. The iPhone with the built in mike and was spot on!!

    If u have meters, they are just checking the frequency of the belt vibration. I'd use both and see if the results jive. Prob will be very close to each other.


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  12. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
    475
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    Thanks for the reply, ricambi has been great to deal with, Having the second meter for me is for that exact reason, to verify results are accurate Jay
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Jason- No pro here but the starboard side is the right side and the port side is the left side. On right or left, always assume you are sitting in the drivers seat, just like in a ship or airplane, you are facing forward.
     
  14. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    roger that, thanks, rotating the motor did indeed change the tension on the right hand side belt.
     
  15. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Should I point out that this still doesn't make sense; at least if you are checking the tension per the WSM. As I recall you take the tension on both of the long legs and the sum has to be in some range, I could look it up. The tension should only change from rotating the motor if you are taking only one side.
     
  16. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    I agree with you, i could seem to get a feq reading on the loose side of the belt, but i have it off now and am working on getting the new one on, very tight.
     
  17. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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  18. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    I found it easier to remove the tensioner bearing put on the belt, then put on the new bearing after the belt is on. Don't forget to lock the hydraulic tensioner and measure the gap on the tensioner arm as noted in the WSM. Keep us posted.


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  19. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    New belt went on without much of a fuss, new hill engineering bearing as well, tensioned belt with pin still free, rotated the engine over cw, waited and tension came up at 210hz combined, but the tensioner gap is at .055 with pin still in, part that i have not worked out is how that distance can ever change with the pin still installed per the manual. Jay
     
  20. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sorry I didn't see this until today. I did notice the hole in the tensioner piston arm is a little larger than the hole in the stationary casing which gives a little play in the tensioner piston even when locked. Also it is possible to deform and bend the locking pin, but this should be obvious.

    So it looks like the tensioner piston is slightly more compressed (pre spin 1.9-2.3mm post engine spin 1.4mm). I would have reset it to spec and spin the motor again. Remember In my experience ( =once) and I'm not a pro.


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  21. YAMVS6

    YAMVS6 Karting

    Jan 26, 2011
    138
    ohio
    left tensioner is updated,has a locating dowl in it,will require update a/c compressor braket to match,for the left side
     
  22. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
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    Chris
    I shaved the dowel off but that isn't the correct way. You can buy the part new but you can also have it machined for very little.

    In regards to the tension setting, what I've heard from some pros (Indie shop and Ferrari dealer) is that they go by the pin only. They set the tension until pin moves freely through the rotation range and let it go.

    You do have to make sure that you rotate the cams from the opposite end (engine at TDC) so you can set initial tension on the side that doesn't have the pulley.
     
  23. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Would need to check the service bulletin and compare to your car (list of engine #, or vin in the bulletin). The bolts have been upgraded to stronger alloy and may be worth replacing. I advise you to check the bulletin.


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  24. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Actually removing the "dowel" is recommended in the service bulletin for those that have the smaller diameter hole in bracket (older models). Interestingly I had the larger diameter hole but it was shallow and the dowel would not allow the base of the tensioner to contact the backing plate. Verified with plastigauge. I was able to modify it (shorten it) including the proper bevel using similar luthier techniques I use to do fretwork on my guitars. Worked well for mine. Again this is from limited experience, I am no pro.

    I'm not sure what the last paragraph means?


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  25. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    thanks for the reply, .055 thou is were the lock is free, but to go through the back hole the window is very small, may try just front hole alignment with the shaft and see if the results vary
     

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