I'm afraid I know the answer, I'm hoping someone can tell me better news. Any way to remove the water pump while the engine is in the car ? The shame is, the water pump itself is OK, but I need to replace the rubber sleeve that connects it to the block. As I can tell, the only way to remove the water pump is to remove the nut holding the shaft to the drive gear, which seems to be accessible only with the sump removed... . In which case, I'll focus on my 2006 income tax report first...Lee
2006 Tax report! Maybe you can get a presidential appointment. LOL We're talking about the hose depicted here in yellow? I just finished rebuilding my water pump and I spent some time looking at that hose since I had replaced the other 6 radiator hoses. It looked like there was enough gap and tube length that would allow you to push a new hose up and then slide it down over the water pump tube. Of course I wasn't confident enough to yank the old one off and replace it! Al Image Unavailable, Please Login
You should be able to replace that hose (with some difficulty) "in the car". Anything else, good luck. The water pump on these engines is a true work of insane genius, nearly impossible to work on.
I think the water pump is an engine-out service because it's being chain driven from inside the engine, but I may be wrong about that. Also, I understand it has a weep-hole underneath. As for the rubber sleeve, that may not require an engine-out for the replacement, but looks like a small area to get around in.
If you want to totally remove the water pump/oil pump I would agree that it's an engine out service. If you want to rebuild the water pump with new seals then it can be easily done in the car. It helps if you have an extra joint or two in your arms if you're working with jack stands like I did. If you have a lift it would be much simpler. The only difficult part is removing the oil seal (#38 in post #3). Al
the problem, and what the diagram doesn't show, is that you have like 1/2" between the two spouts within which to insert the hose in question... it's not possible in situation.
Cut the hose to the minimum length possible, lots of silicone spray, work it in carefully with a "nose picker" (basically like a dull screwdriver with a 90 degree bend about an inch from the tip). Install the clamps and you're done.
ok, we'll see...but i seriously doubt a 'proper' hose once cut short enough to do that could actually be clamped securely without leaking. has this method actually been successful or is it a 'try it and see' suggestion ? it's thick walled tubing that's used there...i just can't believe it. anyway, good luck Lee... i really do hope it works for you.
This is how it's done. The actual hose you use is up to you, it's just ordinary coolant hose. Even if you unbolted the pump from the engine (which you can't do) you wouldn't gain much advantage. This is just one of those little struggles that makes working on an Italian car special. In reality, there are much more frustrating jobs.
The FE series of Ford big block has a short piece of hose like that, it can be done but is not fun. Of course you can take the H2O pump off with out taking the engine out if need be.
It's been done that way by Ferrari mechanics since the early 70's so I guess you could say it's been successful. But back then we said "I'll do it" not "it can't be done". It's a generational thing I guess.
ya, i guess you crusty old farts are more stubborn then my 'generation'... but trust me, the one after me is worse...they're actually lazy. again, good luck Lee. let us know how you make out with it. Tim, you've got a PM
i don't want to beat this to death... but i'm just sayin'... the holes for that pump are aligned and i just don't get how the proper hose for the application can be 'wormed' on there...sh!tty hose, maybe... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
You could trim an inch off the upper pipe and slip the hose over! It does look quite tight otherwise, but maybe there are different designs on different cars. Aidan
yes Aidan, that's the only way i see it and sure, other models may differ slightly...but we're talikng about a 400i, right ? the upper 'spout' is long enough to trim and it wouldn't have to be an inch...and likely without compromise...but i wouldn't. ...but as is, you've got a 5/16" gap and the proper, reinforced hose is at least 3/16" wall. this application is not where you just want to use regular coolant hose...it's a critical high pressure, high heat application. i farted around a bit with this after work as the pics show and because we've got three of these motors (a 365 and 2 400i's) apart right now and i'll stand by what i've said from the outset...with all due respect, the way i see it, you either compromise or you do it out out of the car. just my very humble opinion, no insults required in telling me i'm wrong. thanks. and trust me, when the situation arises in my shop, i'll bust my ass trying this way first before i start pulling **** off the top for engine removal. party on...
Don't be too concerned about pressure on this hose. It's only about 15 pounds and that's per square inch. The clamps are only an inch apart and in such a short space, the most flexible coolant hose will work just fine. As I mentioned before, the trick here is lubrication. Use a flexible hose, feed it in and onto the upper pipe, and slide it down into place. Of course if you are assembling the engine, on a stand, you could start with a length of hose on the upper pipe before you install the pump but that's not an option once the motor is together.
Right on, thanks. when the situation arises i'll use this as Plan A. my point about the proper hose was based simply on the fact that my personal 400 has 110K km's since it's rebuild and the hose is still good. i did reseal the w/pump in situation during that time and i just wouldn't want to sacrifice that kind of durability (knowing the downside) by using a lesser hose in that particular location/application. nevertheless, i defer to your greater experience in the present circumstance...oh, and the way you offered it was cool too. thanks for that as well. there you go Lee...it's all good.
You were fortunate that you could rebuild the pump "in situ", I've seen the covers corroded in place where you nearly needed to break it to get it off.
What an interesting coincidence! My 400i is in for a service to replace the bearings and seals in the water pump (plus all sorts of other things while they're in there) and the shop replaced that short little hose using the "lube and pry" technique! So it does work! By the way, great photos, Brett! Other work done included flushing and cleaning the radiator, replaced all the radiator mounts, fixed some loose fan and oil cooler mounts, replace belts and hoses, oil and filters, adjusted the clutch and timing chain and fixed a number of little things like a sticky heater valve lever, a new battery and checked the compression and leakdown figures, all reported as excellent. He reported that the engine is beautifully quiet in operation, the valve adjustment is spot on and the engine power is absolutely strong across the rev range as you would expect for a car with only 35,000 miles. Altogether the cost of the service is in the $4,500 area. I can't wait to pick it up next week and see for myself! By the way, the 400i is for sale, see FerrariAds. (shameless personal plug!) John
WOW! With the hose on I figured they left more gap than that! Now I'm really glad I didn't attempt to replace it. Al
I have decided to do the whole water pump on my car and while I am at it I will reseal the rest of the engine and change parts as needed, clutch for instance is thin. Never thought I would string those words togeather "While I have the engine out for the water pump..." Image Unavailable, Please Login
