Observations of a new Ferrari engine assy. | FerrariChat

Observations of a new Ferrari engine assy.

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Fritz Ficke, May 29, 2009.

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  1. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    I was careful in the title to not use the term Ferrari "Mechanic" on purpose, becouse I am not one.
    I found out some important points when I "refreshed" my 400I engine that I feel might help other people who are new to these to aviod some pitfalls that I found.

    1, Parts are not the same. When shopping for parts and you found the same part for a lot less it might not be the same quality. for instance chain guides, If a couple places qoute you $640 and you then find a place that has it for $150 be prepared to hand fit (file to size, ream piviot boss) the part and realize it is not OEM. I am not saying do not by the cheaper part, but when price shopping ask if it is OEM so you are comparing equal stuff. Quality diffrence of gaskets is huge.

    2, Chains on these engines wear out fast, mine was hitting the side of the timing chest at about 57,000 miles with no room for adjustment. It made a ticking sound in the front of the engine.

    3, Valve guides wear out fast mine were shot at 68,000 miles, valves looked fine.

    4, When adjusting valves with the head on the bench do not leave the cams in! The valves will hit each other even on the mild cam 400I. You should remove the cams to put the heads on so adjust one cams valves then remove the cam.

    5. The hard ware is softer the German stuff do not treat it the same! If you suspect, are pull one stud you will likely have to heli/coil the others, so save yourself some time and do them all at once on hard to get at stuff like the water pump and idler gear support.

    I ment to take pictures but I do not have that much time to work on this car and a note is the best I could do, Fritz
     
  2. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Fritz, very helpful. Your report is consistent with my view that the 60,000 mile threshhold seems to be the time when the top end of the engine might need some attention and seems to be the lifespan of the timing chain as well. AFAIK, the bottom end of the engine should be good for 100k miles or more but your mileage may vary if you spend a lot of time at 6,500 rpm!
     
  3. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    Ashman, I agree, the bottom end was good, bearing, rings looked fine on mine and look like they could have easily gone another 67,000 miles.

    Another point, I had oil in my coolant and wanted to know how it was getting there, Head gaskets looked good, waterpump was leaking oil externaly but I belive no oil was getting into the coolant that way. What I did find that was obviously bad and I am 90% sure was the source of oil in the coolant was the O-ring seals that went on the oil tubes under the oil filter housing. Real important to change in my opinion and can be done with the engine in the car.
     
  4. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 Ashman, May 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Interesting on the oil in the water problem. On my car, the source was the seal ring inside the water pump (Item 2 in the diagram). As noted, this seal ring can be replaced with the engine in the car.
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  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    The timing chains are scheduled to be changed at 25,000 miles per the factory.

    When you speak of softer hardware are you speaking of the fasteners or the castings? The castings are extremely good. The only time pulling threads out is a problem is when the motor has a history of being overheated. Annealing the aluminum is a well known problem and is common to all aluminum engines. Some of the studs on the front of those motors are often subject to overtorquing by the unaware. That is common too. I have a TR motor here now with that I have installed nearly 100 helicoils. Everything on this motorwas over torqued by a complete fool, it had nothing to do with the quality of the parts.
     
  6. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Whoa. :eek:
     
  7. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
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    thanks all for sharing
     
  8. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

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  9. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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  10. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    I am sure my engine had been hot or a "ham fist' was in it. but it needed alot of 'Hekicoils' maybe eight not bad compared to your 100!
    I also feel (not using tests) that the bolts, nuts general fastners seem to be a softer grade of steel than what is used on German and Jap. cars. Of course I could be wrong becouse I am only going by what it "felt" like maybe I ate a lot of "Wheatis" that day. Thanks always for your imput :"Rifle driver" I "drove" service pistol's for the AMU for four years.
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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  12. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 Ashman, May 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
     
  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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  14. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    Ashman what manual do you have and where did you get it, thanks.
     
  15. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 Etcetera, May 30, 2009
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    Quick reflexes and extraordinary dexterity. Ferrari engines have robust valve trains.
     
  16. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 Ashman, May 30, 2009
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
     
  17. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Love it!
     
  18. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    It seems to me that the C4/365GT4/400/412 is the final version of the Columbo V-12 and lot of measure were done to cut cost. One of them being using one chain to drive all four cams as opposed to the version in the 'Daytona' which used one chain for each bank of two cams. My guess is our cam chains last half the time. Please chim in if you have experince in these two versions to correct or confirm my belief. Thanks
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Daytona used one chain but only extended up to jack shafts below the cams. Those jack shafts drove the cams via gears. The chain was much shorter so "X" percentage of stretch x the length amounted to much less total stretch. You are correct, it was a much more expensive design but also a superior one. It also allowed the cams to be much more easily removed because all you needed to do was remove the covers, bearings and just lift the cams out. No need to disassemble the cam drive system. Not a big deal in a street car but I am sure it came in handy on the Comp Daytonas. The main advantage though was chain life and more consistant cam timing. When a C4 chain gets stretched out the cams get very retarded, especially on the left bank, furthest from the crankshaft.
     

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