Oil pressure sending unit -- Fiat, Alfa, etc. equivalents? | FerrariChat

Oil pressure sending unit -- Fiat, Alfa, etc. equivalents?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by 180 Out, Feb 2, 2013.

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  1. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,210
    San Leandro, CA
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    Bill Henley
    #1 180 Out, Feb 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
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    Russell Schacter
    #2 rustytractor, Feb 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bill,

    the senders shown are available from Superformance in the UK.

    If you have no luck finding one at a sensible price in the US you can order one of these to be sent to me. I'll then send it to you as a gift (no import duty etc).

    Regards,

    Russ
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  3. usmck9

    usmck9 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Norman Baker
    #3 usmck9, Feb 3, 2013
    Imported Auto Parts, Inc 732 542 5600 has a sixteen mm sending unit. It will not fit your car. I tried to install it on my '81 #35477 and it's too small. You need an eighteen mm size. If you can use a sixteen mm, I've got one, new part # 125340.
     
  4. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,210
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    Bill Henley
    #4 180 Out, Feb 3, 2013
    Thanks for the offers guys. From a thread in the 308-328 forum I got a lead on a vendor referred to as "Dennis McCann." I googled the name and that got me to a web page with this info on it:

    Dennis McCann's All Ferrari Parts Inc.
    10840 Fancher Road, Westerville, OH 43082
    Phone: 614-855-1103 Fax: 614-855-2850

    Search Results
    Part Number----------------------------------------------Description----------------------------------------------Price

    122592--OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT, 288/308i/308QV/328/400i/512BBi (18X1.5MM)(MARELLI)(OLD # 118000)-------$119.95
    122592--OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT, 288/308i/308QV/328/400i/512BBi (18X1.5MM)(AFTERMARKET)------------------$69.95

    125340--OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT 16X1.5MM, 246/308/400/BB (MARELLI # 64512999)(OLD # 100343 & 118003)---$225.00
    125340--OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT 16X1.5MM, 246/308/400/365GT4BB/512BB (DCAR # 5034)----------------------$99.95

    What I get is that there are two sizes -- 16 mm and 18 mm -- and two options for each size: a Marelli part or an aftermarket part. I also get that the 18 mm goes with the 400i and the 16 mm goes with the 400. But I'm going to remove my OE part and measure it, to be sure.

    It also looks as if there's a $50 premium for the 18 mm Marelli part, and a $125 premium for the 16 mm Marelli part. Depending on availability, I think I'll take my chances on the aftermarket unit. But I do want to fix this problem. With engine rebuilds in the range of $15K and up, sitting at stop lights with my gauge showing nearly zero oil pressure is not the kind of excitement I'm looking for in a Ferrari.
     
  5. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,210
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    Bill Henley
    #5 180 Out, Feb 3, 2013
    I wonder if you could unscrew the 16 mm fitting from the pn 125340, and unscrew the 18 mm fitting from your OE sending unit, and put the 18 mm OE fitting on the pn 125340.
     
  6. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    #6 blkprlz, Feb 5, 2013
    I thought about this when I ordered some stainless headers from them a few months ago but I was never charged one cent :cool:
    I have noticed some vendors around the globe sending me products marked as 'gift'. that works too :)
     
  7. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
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    Russell Schacter
    #7 rustytractor, Feb 5, 2013
    ok, good. That said, the offer stands if it helps.
     
  8. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
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    Bill Henley
    #8 180 Out, Feb 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have removed the sender unit from my '83 400i. A picture is attached. The fitting is 12 mm with a 1.5 pitch. It's not 16 mm and it's not 18 mm. Therefore I don't want to order either of the parts listed in the All Ferrari Parts Inc. on-line catalog, neither the pn 122592 (18 mm x 1.5) nor the pn 125340 (16 x 1.5). I notice the screen capture from the Superperformance web site that Russell posted up shows a third part number, pn 100343. I have emailed them to find out if it will fit.

    But in the meantime, does anybody have a line on a sending unit for this car? What I know is that I need a 12 x 1.5 fitting; that when I ground the gauge connector (that is, at a sender reading of zero ohms) the gauge maxes out at 12 bar; and that the hex on my unit is 17 mm and it has these words on it: VEGLIA -- 0-12 Kg/cm^2 -- 12-24 -- 115-02 -- 2 K
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  9. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
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    Bill Henley
    #9 180 Out, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Having come to a dead end trying to find a 12 kg/cm^2 sender with a 12 mm x 1.5 pitch fitting, I decided to try a cheapie workaround. This consisted of a $20 Summit brand sender, pn SUM-G2872-1, and a $10 Auto Meter 12 mm to 1/8 npt adapter, pn 2277. The Ferrari sender measures about 300 ohms and the Summit about 220 ohms (iirc), so you know there will be a mismatch. This mismatch means that, when you turn the key to "run," the gauge will show a reading of greater than zero. But the point of this exercise is to have *some* kind of oil pressure info, even if the marks on the gauge don't correspond to the actual engine oil pressure. The max psi of the Summit sender is also a mismatch: 120 psi vs. 170 psi. But you can't harm the gauge at the high end of the range, because the minimum ohm reading is in the range of 10 ohms or less in both cases. (I wouldn't expect ever to exceed 120 psi in any event.)

    Before I took this step I also bought a 100 ohm, 10 watt wire-wound resister at Radio Shack, $3 for two, to see if the gauge was working. I clipped one end to the female connector leading to the gauge, and the other end to ground. The oil pressure gauge registered 5 or 6 kg/cm^2, so I knew the gauge and wiring are good.

    So here are some photos. First we've got the OEM sender in situ. Then a picture of the parts. Then a picture of the new parts installed. Then a picture of the gauge with the key at "run" but the engine off. Then a picture of the gauge and tach together. This is with cold oil.

    Finally, a picture of the adapter that was in the car. This is some good news: it's a 12 mm to 18 mm adapter. This means I can order a true 12 kg/cm^2 sender from Dennis McCann, for $70, and get a more accurate reading at the gauge. I wish I would have thought of this last weekend, but with all the "patina" on the tube that the sender screws into, I could not see that there was an adapter at the top. I didn't find out until I put a wrench on it.
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  10. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
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    #10 rustytractor, Feb 20, 2013
    I've lost count of how many blind alleys I've gone up to find on the way back that there was a doorway at the beginning all along. This is just typical of life but at least your experience will help others with the same issue so thanks for this info.

    Glad you got there in the end.
     
  11. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
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    #11 180 Out, Feb 20, 2013
    Oops. It looks like all my photos did not upload. Three are missing. I will try again this evening.
     
  12. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
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    Bill Henley
    #12 180 Out, Feb 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I hope so. My suggestion of the correct response to a semi or totally inoperable oil pressure gauge is, first, remove the connector from the sender and ground the connector through the 100 ohm resistor. If your gauge registers 5-6 kg/cm^2 then you know the gauge and its wiring are OK and it's the sender that needs replacement. In that case, remove the sender and if it's a 12 mm unit like mine, see if the hex fitting at the top of the tube is not an adapter. You can also remove the tube completely and see what size the hole is in the block. If either hole is 16 mm or 18 mm, then you get a proper 12 kg/cm^2, 300 ohm replacement.

    In other words, if you start off on the right track then you can avoid the $30 Summit sender + adapter detour.

    Here are the four pictures that I didn't get uploaded two days ago. They are, first, a picture of the Summit sender + adapter, installed. Then a picture of the gauge with the key at "run" but the engine off. This shows how the max ohm mismatch -- 300 for the OE sender and 220 for the Summit -- will cause the gauge to show a reading even though the engine is off. Then a picture of the gauge and tach together, with the engine running at the indicated rpm. This is with cold oil. Finally, there's a picture of the 18 mm to 12 mm adapter that was in the car.
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  13. ossa

    ossa Rookie

    Oct 27, 2007
    29
    #13 ossa, Oct 1, 2014
    Superformance item number 100343 has a 12 mm x 1.5 thread. I know this because I ordered one for a 308 and they sent it without the adapter that converts it from 12 x1.5 to 16 mm x1.5. They are sending the adapter.....I tried to find this metric adapter online and came up with nothing. Does anyone know where to get a 12 x 1.5 to 16 x 1.5 adapter?
     
  14. mseals

    mseals Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 9, 2007
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    #14 mseals, Oct 1, 2014
    O'Reillys?

    Equus 9848 - Adapter Kit | O'Reilly Auto Parts
     
  15. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior

    May 28, 2012
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    Arvid Andersson
    #15 Arvid, Nov 5, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
    This last year my oil pressure instrument has started to react very slowly. I suspect the sender unit needs replacing or opening/cleaning.

    The 400GT instrument is graded to 10bar as opposed to 400i and 412 that has 12bar. All available senders I can find for sale are 12bar. Using that would create an aprox.15% misreading of lower pressure if installed on a 10bar instrument.

    Has anyone really found out what type of sender the 365 GT4 2+2 and 400GT use ? Is it a Veglia or Magneti Marelli ? Is it 10bar or 12bar ? And is the resistance like most italian senders of that era - about 300 ohm ?

    Arvid
     
  16. Continental AutoSports

    Continental AutoSports F1 Rookie
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    Aug 22, 2006
    4,393
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    Bobby Williams / Parts Manager
    #16 Continental AutoSports, Jan 26, 2022
    Can I PLEASE revive this thread as I need help.

    I'm currently looking for an oil pressure gauge sender for a Fiat Dino 2400. HOWEVER, the sender is reverse in that at rest it's 0 ohm (yes you read that correctly). It pegs at about 280 ohms so the circuitry is reversed. We've confirmed, TWICE confirmed, the physical oil gauge is in prefect working order however the sender is reversed.

    ANY HELP?!
    @Arvid @180 Out
     
  17. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior

    May 28, 2012
    668
    Norway
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    Arvid Andersson
    #17 Arvid, Jan 27, 2022
    Must be the wrong type sender unit. I've seen reversed ohm sender units earlier but they are not common. The Fiat Dino should have the same oil pressure sender as Ferrari Dino - they are listed for sale as fitting both models and several others. From what I've seen on FChat earlier Ferrari Dino sender should read as follows :

    Psi...Ohms
    0...270
    42...180
    85...100
    127.....50
    170.....10

    Part nr. for a 246 Dino is 125340 and it's used on many models from Ferrari,all Dino's - 308 GT4 - 308 GTB - 365 GT4 2+2 - 400 - 512BB. It's a fairly standard Veglia Borletti unit and I'm sure it's used on several other Fiat and Lancia. If you can find the Fiat equivalent it would be a third of the price.

    Dinoparts : https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-accessories/fiat/dino-coupe-spider-2400/engine/engine-block/oil-cycle/9849/oil-pressure-gauge-sender-m18-fiat-dino-2400
    Mr Fiat : https://mrfiat.com/italian/fiat/fiat-dino/electrical-and-ignition/fiat-dino-2000-2400-oil-pressure-gauge-sender.html
     
  18. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,881
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    #18 raemin, Jan 27, 2022
    You could use a Fuel Gauge Wizard (https://spiyda.com/fuel-gauge-wizard-mk3.html). Abstract from the seller's description:
    • Matches senders to gauges, even reversed ones!
    • (...)
    • It allows virtually any resistive sender to work with virtually any Gauge.
    • (...)
    • With 5 calibration points, it can cope with non linear senders
    The system basically analyses the sender resistance and mimics (uses a fet and a resistor) whatever resistance the gauge is expecting. The fact that the reading can be fine tuned is a real plus if you need to accurately monitor what's going on in the engine bay.
     

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