400/412 in Classic Driver: worth investing right now

Interesting indeed. I'm not particularly pleased to be in such company.

 

Really Ross? The Montreal, the Esprit, the 968 CS are all very low production cars with great pedigrees...and they aren't going to make more. I'm pleased to be in the same company with those.

The Jag XJS? No way. They just made too many of them.

 

The a xjs is a pretty good looking car. There is one I occasionally drive past in green with gold racing stripes, but definitely in need of a restoration. I can see them becoming desired classics but probably not great investments.

 

Oh yeah, that Montreal is just butt ugly to my eye. The Esprit? not a very good car, without Roger Moore they'd have all been crushed by now. The 968? I'm okay with that one for pedigree alone even though the Panzer aficionados sneer at them .
The Jag? I lusted for one 25 years ago but they haven't aged well for me. Like you said, too many of them made, plus terrible cars to begin with.
The BMW will appreciate for sure, it's just so different. It is on a proven, albeit humble, driveline so is ostensibly a good and useable "car" as well.

 

Can't really argue with anything that the article says about the 400 series. Over time, as more and more cars fall by the wayside or require significant restoration, prices will likely increase. I remember not too many years ago when driver qualtiy 250GTEs and 330GT 2+2's could be bought for less than $50K. Even though their prices have lagged the two seater Enzo era Ferraris, their prices are much more reflective of their restoration costs now and maybe even a little bit more.

However, those who are thinking "investment" and use production numbers as a gauge of investment potential, consider that the total run of 5 speed 365GT4 2+2/400/400i/412 series cars is fewer than the total number of 365GTB/4 Daytonas produced.

 

....and dare I say it.....Daytonas are ugly. There....I said it. It had to be said.

 

Ha…I like the Daytona quite a bit altho my mechanic is not a fan & tells me that GTB/4s he's driven are unwieldy over 100mph: "Daytona front tends to lift, no similar issue w/ the 400" is how he described it.

 

Hi guys, as a matter if course, when the discussion involves 400/412 cars....does this include, by default, the 365 gt4 too? Is the 365 considered the "older brother" or "lost cousin"....closer or more distant in relation....or the same....? For instance, why would this article not mention 365/400/412? To where does she belong? TIA,

Jack
'74 GT4 2+2 #18231

 

Same reason rarely mention the 365 GT4 BB when speaking of the 512 BB/BBi.

 

following that thought thru, the 365 gt4 "same class" as 365 gt/b;gtc;gtc/4;bb due to displacement or engine specs only.......this is kinda what I think, yet styling so different thru the line, or for that matter similat thinking for the "250 cars"...really based on engine dynamics only and styling for "eye of the beholder".

using your example, a 365 bb looks way more like it's "brothers" the 512's than the 365 gt4, which in turn looks nothing like any other 365.....just wondering where and what the thinking is.

Jack

 

should have asked "what IS the reason rarely mentioned" in my last post...?

Jack

 

Everyone hates the six tail lights....

 

easy there cowboy - I like both 4 AND 6 taillights.

Maybe we should settle on 5 as an acceptable number ?

 

haha...yeah yeah yeah. I was just kidding.

But in all seriousness, I think that's why the GT4 2+2 doesn't get mentioned all that much. It's thought of as an earlier version of the 400/400i...which was made in much more numbers and was much more popular. Same as the 365 GT4 BB. The 512BB and BBi were much longer production runs and were more "iconic" if you will. The 365 GT4 BB is almost forgotten except by those who are true BB lovers. I suspect the 365 GT4 2+2 is really only mostly known by enthusiasts of the entire series. Outside of that, that body style is widely known as the 400/400i.

Anyway, that's my theory.

 

you know, now that you mentioned it, I do recall that 'discussion' over the years...!!

moving past that, where does the gt4 belong? are most in "engine spec camp" or styling camp" meaning do you tend to place a car among it's more similar looking cars or stay with engine designation. anyone care to guess why PF added the estra light.... "three a side"... for the QM...caring this one design element thru to basically two completely re-styled & very different cars; the bb and the 2+2? i was just curious and thanks for the input....what i do know is that i really enjoy my new to me 2+2 as move up/down thru the gears and rpms!!

Jack

 

the 365 gt4 bb is valued 30-40% MORE thana 512 bb w/c is valued approx 20-35% MORE than a bbi.

maybe same will occur with the 365/400/400i ?? THAT is exactly the reason I mentioned all this in the first place, since topic of article was "investment". IMHO, the author missed the mark by NOT including the 365 , which if the Boxer series is any guide, "our" series of cars may follow along a similar pricing slope.......eg 365>400>400i for reasons of rairity, manual and carbed. Same parameters of the Boxer (except only manual of course).

well, that's my 2 cents and yet it does not answer at all as to where she "belongs"...except in my garage !!


Jack