My new exhaust......manifold problem? | FerrariChat

My new exhaust......manifold problem?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by bjwhite, Jan 27, 2015.

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  1. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #1 bjwhite, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So...I put the car up on the lift and removed all of that federalization BS....but afterwards I started inspecting to lay out my plans for the exhaust installation and I noticed this.

    The first picture is the left side exhaust where the manifolds mate to the center section. The second picture is the right side.

    Notice that it looks like someone cut it off and then modified it. Since the exhaust on this car is completely custom sort of job, I'm really wondering why someone would have done this? Especially since the left side is still stock looking.

    This means I either need a new Right side rear manifold, or I need to get this one re-modified back to "stock". or I need to drop $$$ on some new stainless manifolds.

    Hmmm....I'm puzzled.
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  2. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #2 bjwhite, Jan 27, 2015
    You know, it just occurred to me that maybe that one manifold ISN'T factory and is in fact a custom reproduction made when the exhaust was done up. Hmmmm...
     
  3. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

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    #3 GT Jones, Jan 28, 2015
    The short header doesn't have the extra side outlet for the oem mufflers? Probably custom.
     
  4. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

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    #4 SouthJersey400i, Jan 28, 2015
    It is a pity about the three ugly connectors of the four. In any case you will need to get from 4 pipes to 2 with something custom but preferably with a 3-bolt flange like the one left.

    Then all you need is a set up like Dave Stacy and I have. We have a straight SS pipe from that front flange all the way over the axles and then one good muffler on each side. Dave has posted a few times the exact part he uses from a domestic muffler maker. Mine is a bit more exotic in all polished SS with a couple of ANSA dual tips like the originals. System is simple, no mufflers in center of car and gives a great sound.
    Ken
     
  5. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #5 bjwhite, Jan 28, 2015
    Wow, I can't believe I didn't notice that. Absolutely--it's the one that's not factory. :(
    Oh well.....I guess I need to figure this stuff out before mounting my new exhaust now.


    Not quite sure what you mean SouthJersey about two into four, etc. I figure I was going to install this new exhaust and if it's too quiet I was going to pull out the center sections and go straight pipes and then just run the backbox mufflers.
     
  6. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    #6 Ak Jim, Jan 28, 2015
    In your case how about going to an exhaust fabrication shop and have them make you a short extension pipe to use between the header and new exhaust system.

    On my car I have an Ansa rear section and for the center section there are two pipes per side (total of four for the car) that go between the headers and rear Ansa system. And yes it does sound great, almost a little loud for a really long drive but well worth it.
     
  7. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #7 bjwhite, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  8. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

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    #8 GT Jones, Jan 29, 2015
    I'd definitely have a muffler shop kludge err, fabricate a short section to match up to the existing header. You don't want to pull headers off if they aren't causing a problem.
     
  9. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #9 bjwhite, Jan 30, 2015

    You know, I've removed this header before when I did my starter and it was the easiest thing ever. I'm not sure why people make such a big deal about removing headers....
     
  10. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    #10 Ak Jim, Jan 30, 2015
    Even if you do decide to go with the exhaust extension for now I would still buy a correct header just to have.
     
  11. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #11 bjwhite, Jan 30, 2015
    Thanks Jim. I don't think I'll even mess with an extension. Better to just get a new manifold especially since the little bypass pipe fitting is also needed.

    Ferrari Parts Exchange has two of them for decent money. I just can't stomach the cost of going for the stainless setup for close to $4000. That's an amazing price for a bit of bent metal tubing. :)
     
  12. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #12 bjwhite, Feb 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ahhhh, so I figured this out. The third owner (the one who put the majority of the mileage on the car) ended up putting a new exhaust on the car in early 1996.

    He ordered a full set of headers/manifolds and gaskets from GT Car Parts Inc. However, two things are clear here:

    1) He ordered the four manifolds but he seems to have ordered the early carbed versions, part numbers 105598, 105599, 105600 and 105601. These go to the 365 GT4 2+2 and 400. The injected cars should have 118724, 118725, 118726, and 118727.

    2) As you can see, 105601 was backordered and thus--also as you can see, he had Mufflers Unlimited fabricate the missing header and the rest of the exhaust with Ansa tips.

    So now my question. I can get a replacement 105601 for a carbed car and have the matched set. OR, I could get a replacement 118727. The question is, what's the big difference?

    When I look up pictures of the 11872x series of parts, there seems to be little bungs or something on the lower part--almost like they'd be for an o2 sensor or something but there's one per pipe. Is this for individual test metering for injection tuning? These little "things" are the only difference I can see between the carbed versions and the injected versions. What are they?

    Anyone have any thoughts?

    By the way, I LOVE having a full service history with my car. Actually, my 79 Alfetta has full history since it was purchased here in Seattle and my 89 Milano has an almost complete history too. It's so nice to have when figuring out past work.
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  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 Steve Magnusson, Feb 1, 2015
    Those are individual cylinder exhaust gas sampling ports for advanced diagnostics (if necessary). That 110860 plug is used on many other F models for the same purpose -- and even fits as a replacement on models that have the metal "extension" tubes mounted to those bungs (like 308 and TR).
     
  14. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #14 bjwhite, Feb 1, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
    Thanks Steve. Do you think they are worth keeping? Meaning...should I go through efforts to put the proper headers on the car with the bungs? Or not bother and just get a replacement one without it?
     
  15. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 Steve Magnusson, Feb 1, 2015
    I think it unlikely that you'll need them urgently -- so (re)completing your existing set of carb headers wouldn't be a sin (and even if you did find a set of injected headers at a good price in the future, you'd still want a complete carb set to sell). JMOs.
     
  16. 15765

    15765 Formula Junior

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    #16 15765, Feb 1, 2015
    Buy the one for $550.00. and be done with it. They are both from the same seller so there must be a reason for the extra price, but give them a call first, they are good guys and will deal so you mite get it for a little less and they will tell why there is a price difference.

    chuck
     
  17. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    #17 blkprlz, Feb 3, 2015
    I noticed that too!

    I figured that was what those ports were for & wondered if the Allen wrench bolts next to each FI line port on the distributor gained access to some individual adjustment.

    A note on existing headers:
    I remember Adian removing his quite some time ago & having them ceramic coated both inside & out. If I were to keep mine, that's the route I'd take, these things always look rusted up & often wondered what life they've got left. And to date, I haven't heard of anyone having a huge problem with the R&R of the headers but I'd get some extra manifold bolts on hand just in case, I'm curious what size they are :confused:

    Brian, were the headers from GT new or are they rusty used ones? Either way, I'd have them coated inside & out not only to keep them from going south on you but any help in the heat alleviation dept. in the engine bay is always a 'huge' plus for me!

    For me, I decided to go the stainless route & got a set from Superformance in the $2200. range. & they don't have the side ports for the side balancing pipes. I've noticed on custom C4 & Daytona set-ups, they balance the 2 3-pipe outputs from the headers on each bank with an X-pipe set-up in the midsection & finishing off with the 2 in/2out resonator on the rears.
    And I'd use mild steel in the mid & rear sections because I'm afraid of the stainless twang sound of full stainless set-ups :(
     
  18. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    #18 bjwhite, Feb 3, 2015
    The headers from GT were new but in 1996 when they were installed. I am not sure the route I am going to go now. New stainless, new or used single carbed version, used four injected versions and then sell my carbed versions, etc.... All have plusses and minuses.
     

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