Auction Artcurial February 6, 2015

That is quite the price for a car with so many needs.

 

We all should of chucked our lot all in this auction. The halo effect would have been huge. If a non runner is 53600 euros mine must be a 100k euro car.....

 

And this half decent 400i auto couldn't make a reserve at way less than half that....

1980 Ferrari 400i Auto? | Anglia Car Auctions

 

It was the high end venue that got the price me thinks

 

What was reserve on the anglia auction car?

 

Maybe there was €30,000 in gold coins stashed in the trunk!

 

All this talk about the potential for rising value - we should just stick our cars in a garage for a few years.

 

This one has been for sale for some time, under £20k

Ferrari 400i by Pininfarina For Sale (1984) on Car And Classic UK [C12618]

 

These cars all all between 25 and 42 years old now and so we are beginning to see the big divide between restored/well maintained cars and neglected cars. That is amplified by the costs of restoration or extensive maintenance on these cars which is gradually transferring itself into sales prices.

My 400i was 15 years old when I bought it in 1998 and had been reasonably well cared for and kept in a good environment for all those years. When I was looking, there were a lot of 8-19 year old 400i/412 choices to try out. It was unusual to see one that was truly in bad condition. Deferred maintenance or lack of use issues but still, a car that was only 15 years old and garage kept, which nearly all Ferraris were, was not bad to bring back up to snuff and reliability.

In those days, the price difference between the best 400i on the planet (figuratively speaking) and the average deferred maintenance example with shiny paint was only a few thousand dollars. Even then, it didn't really matter much because the recommissioning costs usually weren't outrageous.

Add another 17 years and that is a lot of additional time to wear away at every aspect of these cars. In other words, the neglected cars have gotten much worse while the supply of well maintained cars is shrinking. Even if the demand for good cars stays the same, the shrinking supply will put upward price pressure on these cars.

It is unlikely that anyone is going to find a good 400i era car in 2015 that hasn't had a significant amount of money invested in it to keep it in good condition. The ravages of time will make sure that even a car kept in proper storage is going to have huge needs to bring it back to life.

And that costs money.

 

Hi Jack

I wanted an injected model because I felt it would be easier to keep tuned. Maybe I was hypersensitive to stories about the tuning and valve adjustment costs of the six side draft webers of the 365GTC/4 and, by extension, the 365 GT4 2+2 and 400.

Also, secondarily, there didn't seem to be many carbed versions for sale when I was looking over about a nine month period. I saw and drove 7-8 5 speeds in New York, New Jersey, California and Nevada before I found the one I bought in Laguna Beach.

 

One reason is I guess if you say I gotta 365 then there's confusion as it could be one of about 6 variants. Personally if I could I wish had a 365 gt4 (love the 6 rear lights knock off wheels) out of the 3 then a 400 (what I've got) then a 412 (not so keen on higher boot line, wheels or covered exhausts). But they are minor issues as they're all cool. Also over the years to the uninitiated 400 encompasses all 3 as a sort of nickname which probably really aggravates gt4 and 412 owners

 

I've never even seen a 365 in person!

 

There is something to the fact that "365GT4 2+2/400/400i/412" is quite a mouthful to say or type.

Unlike the enormous variety of body styles around the 250 engined series cars (e.g. Europa, TdF, Spyder California LWB and SWB, various Testa Rossas, LWB/SWB Berlinettas, GTO, etc.) this series is too similar in body styles and doesn't have an all encompassing general name.

It's too bad, really, because the body style endured for 17 years (from 1973-1990), far longer than any other body style in the history of Ferrari. Quite a mark of distinction!

 

Nothing against a 365, but I wanted the last of the series ( 412 GT) as this had the largest engine, most torque, fuel injection, electonic ignition and nicer interior. Also is the first Ferrari with ABS, which I see as a bonus when I have the family in the car. Not a fan of knock of wheels either. Also the 412's are 13 -15 years newer that a 365 so the condition tends to be better.

M

 

I do love the 365, but--I could take or leave the knock off wheels. I dig the lack of front spoiler and I love the interior (except the wood), but I absolutely can not stand the six taillights on that car. They look fine on the GTC/4, but I just can't love them on the GT4 2+2.

The 412...I want to like it more than I do. I love the updates to the interior and the engine--but can not stand the trunklid which I think sort of ruins the car--couple that with the painted bumpers and some rather ugly wheels, then it was series II 400i for me all day long. I'm not a fan of the wood and switchgear in the series I 400/400i nor the painted black rear tail. So again, series II 400i was what I was searching for. I know, strange criteria for sure......but still.

Now all of that being said--picking our favorites here is a bit like splitting hairs. I love the entire series--I just have my favorites and not so favorites.

 

Interesting thoughts on why everyone prefers the model they like the most. My thought process started with I wanted a 5 speed, this is just because I really like driving manuals (5 of 7 of our cars are manuals). Then I saw an early 400 with carbs for sale. Growing up I worked on air cooled VWs and ran 2 Webers on them and always liked the great throttle response and sounds so then I started to look for a carb car. I then read about issues with passing IM tests so then I thought how about a 1975 or older to avoid that issue. This put me into the 365. After having it I really like the 6 tail lights but originally liked the four tail lights more. As far as the knock off wheels they are cool but in all reality if I could switch to standard rims I would do this so I could go with a 16" tire size. The reality is there aren't very many of these cars so you sort of end up buying what is available.

 

To all for taking the time to reply....essentially what I had thought. Perhaps the most 'compelling' reason...."I bought the best variant that was available at the time I was looking".

Jacj

 

The one with the most torque is the 400GT - 471Nm/347lb-ft at 3600 rpm. The 412 manages 451Nm/333lb-ft at 4200 rpm.

Those that have only driven the 400 Automatic would never know what this engine feels like in a 5-speed car It is a beast...

The 412 is no doubt a better car in many ways but it lacks some of the finest details this range can offer. The classiest interior,the most powerful engine and more true to design exterior. Some like the daughter,some the mother as they say in my country. This can be debated til the sun sets and rises...

 

There is something to that. While it is important to avoid the "red mist" (particularly for first time Ferrari buyers), after a while and a few months of seeing what is out there you make the decision to buy the best that is available and start enjoying the car.

I've known people who seemed to be forever looking for the "perfect car" and passing on the "almost perfect" in hopes of finding the unicorn that in all likelihood doesn't exist. They have gone on literally for years but the "perfect car" never seems to become available and so they miss out on a lot of fun and enjoyment when they could have had an "almost perfect" car that they bring up to "perfect" or just enjoy as is.

When I was looking for my 400i, I found three cars that I could have bought but two were vastly overpriced for the market. The one I found in California had some very minor issues that turned up in the PPI that the seller agreed to have fixed and he also was pretty negotiable on the price. I saw and drove it once, negotiated a price over the next several weeks, came back for the PPI at a shop in Costa Mesa, sent a check with the shop holding it and the title until both parties were happy, had the shop fix the few things and then shipped the car to Connecticut.

The only thing that I missed was not checking the spare tire to see if it actually had air in it. Turns out it had a slash in the sidewall on the downward side but, since I was planning on buying new tires anyway, it was no problem to use the best of the take offs as my new spare! LOL!

Other than that, it was a good car. In fact, the seller, who had a nice collection of various Italian cars and who was the second owner of the 400i for 10 years, told me, "John, it's a good car and in six months you'll still think it's a good car!" Normally I don't believe half of what a seller tells me and I give a heavy discount to the other half but, in this case, he was exactly right. Whew!

I never regretted my purchase and I never felt that subsequent cars for sale would have been materially better, so I got a lot of enjoyment and happy miles out of that 400i for 15 years.

PS: A note about Ferrari prices. As many of us know, Ferrari prices went insane in the boom of the late 80's and especially after Enzo's death in 1988. My seller paid $72,000 in 1988 for my then 4 year old 400i 5 speed with 18,000 miles and he told me that he was offered $110K for it in 1990 but turned it down. I paid a lot less than either of those prices for it in 1998!