Am I totally out of touch?

Who knows, Dave? Is it real or are all these high asking prices trying to fool the market up?

This seller advertised 39425 with an asking price of $69,500 on eBay in February, 2015 so i guess that the $46K "bid" would fall short of the "reserve".

BTW, for those who care, this car sold for $27,500 including buyer's premium at Barrett Jackson Florida in 2013. So you tell me which price is closer to the "market" in the U.S. for a 5 speed with no records, no books, no tools but with a rebuilt rear suspension: An actual selling price two years ago or an asking price today that is more than double the selling price?

 

Dude, late 328s are cracking $125 to $150 "ask"...!

 

We need to, I am still celebrating getting out of mine..

But I think about the cost of paint, and say "what if".....

I need a six speed 360 convertible, I will feel okay after that!!

 

You fellas weren't around in the late 1980s, were you?

 

Bingo…or at least that's what I'm suspecting...

They seem to have high pricing…but if you can sit on it, I guess is doesn't hurt to try.

LOL You can't be serious...

 

Yes, I'm very serious.

I worked at a dealership in Davenport, Iowa in 1986 when we traded for a 1974 Jaguar XKE Roadster for $8,000. We repainted the car for $4,000 and it sat on the showroom floor for 3 months. 6 months after I left I tracked down the school teacher in my old home town of Muscatine, Ia. and bought the car from him for $27k. He had bought it for $17k from the dealer I worked at. The following day I sold it to Moore Jaguar in St Louis, Mo. for $47k. Larry Merly was the manager there and he wholesaled the car to another dealer in one week for $57k. That dealer presented it at an auction where it sold for $80k.

All in one year. $8k -$80k.

So yeah, did you fellas witness that time? It was CRAZY!

I also sold a 365 GTC at an auction 15 years ago for $55k. What are they worth now? There's just too much of a gap between any other vintage Ferrari manual transmission front engine V12 to think these cars would stay in the $20k - $30k range forever.

Sorry for those who didn't buy one, congratulations to those who did, or kept one.

 

$46,000.00 is actually about $35,000.00 short of what nice ones are selling for in Europe and about $50,000 back of the value of a really nice low mileage one. I don't know if this a nice one or not but the 365Gt4 2+2 and the 400GTs are the very last 12 Cylinder Classic Ferrari's you can get into for less than $150,000.00 to $200,000.00 unless you buy one of the late model electronic disasters like a 456 / 550 that Ferrari ruined with the Motronic computer trash that the Germans sold them so they could still say the Porsche'e were more trouble free.
I started in the Ferrari game in 1970 when no one wanted a 4 seat Ferrari and you couldn't give a 250GTE away and they were crushed at the scrap yards, not soon after that the 4 headlight 330GTs suffered the same fate then came the single headlight 330GTs that got a little respect so they didn't get crushed or cut up for GTO replica's and I bought a really nice one for $5000.00 in 1970 "4 years old" then the 365GT 2+2 Queen mother came along and I paid $6,500.00 for one of those in 1973 "5 years old", now try to buy either one for under $300,000.00 and see what you get. Remember there is nothing available between the Queen Mother and the 365GT4 2+2 / 400GTs So how long do think you will still be able to buy a 365GT4 2+2 or a 400GT for under $200.000.00 when they are asking between $130.000.00 and $160.000.00 in Europe rite now for really nice low mileage 365GT4 2+2s and 400GTs.

Chuck

 

I remember. I'm convinced that the car I own now is the same one seen on the local Ferrari showroom floor for sale at over $100k around '89 or '90. Sure am glad I couldn't afford it then.

 

Interestingly Jag couldn't GIVE those last XKEs away. They did such an awful job with the mandated 5mph bumpers and emission controls. The '74s remind me of a once beautiful woman with botched plastic surgery and a smoker's cough.
This: http://www.jellybeanhotrods.com/images/65jaguar/16.jpg
to this:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Jaguar/74_jaguar_etype_v12_roadster_CC_KM_02.jpg

 

The market is real. How long have we been lamenting "Only a matter of time before people realize the true value of these cars".

This is the classic bubble. The bubble will burst, maybe in January when the weak Euro drives auction prices down, but the new market is here to stay. Anything pre-348 is now vintage, Shaughnessy be damned.

I have been offered $90,000 for my 308GT4, and it is not and never has been for sale. My 412 is not for sale and I was offered $55K, but right now it is worth more.

You're also seeing people really seeing anything with a manual transmission as a sign of a classic car, so it used to be the 5 speed was a $5-7K bump over an auto- now it's more like 15-20K. And I sold my 5 speed 400i last year BEFORE prices went nuts. Ouch.

So for the very, very, very best cars, auto 412s are $60K cars and manual 412s are $75K cars. I don't see those prices retreating much. Even bad 400i autos are no longer $22,000 cars- looks like they are mid $30s. I still think this market has a ways to go.

Soon we will categorize cars not by whether Enzo was in charge, not by whether Enzo was still affiliated with Ferrari, but whether Enzo was still on the planet- So the "Enzo" era is being redefined now, and it ends in 1988.

 

Actually a lot longer than that. As a college student in the early/mid 70's, I remember a rich classmate trying to convince his father to let him buy a Lusso for $8k. Also, at an Alfa Owner's club meet I remember a member with a gorgeous 250 GT SWB and him telling me how he bought it from a financially distressed seller for what he had in his checking account at the time: $3,500!

Fast forward to the late 80's and, even though I was several years out of business school and doing pretty well, I figured that I might never be able to afford a Ferrari until the crash started around 1991.

When I bought my 400i in 1998, the seller told me he bought it for $72,000 in 1988 and turned down an offer of $110k for it in 1990. I paid $28k for it.

Will prices keep heading up as aging baby boomers cash in their proceeds from selling their business or an IPO and buy the raw and visceral experience of a Ferrari with a V12 and no computers? It all depends on supply and demand and we know that the supply is dwindling, so maybe.

 

I emailed them about the car, I was willing to pay about 42-44k. His reserve is 72K ! It's been relisted about 3 times now so I don't think he is going to get his 72k

 

I had an agreed upon deal in March for a 12k mile 348 that needed a major for $38500. Over the weekend, the guy reconsidered selling the car. Since then, prices for even 348s have gone up....most in the mid 40s to high 50s....but some even in the 70s.

It's nuts.....and don't even bring up the 911 world..sheesh

 

I also had a close friend loose over $100k on a Testarossa when the music stopped in the early 1990s. So it does go both ways! Nothing is ever final, the pendulum sways back and forth. The market will always fluctuate!

 

There might be a bubble in the not too distant future, but even then prices will come back. I'll go to my experience with Facel Vegas; prices languished in the sub $10K range for years then skyrocketed. I bought an HK500 at $40K and was offered $75K less than 6 months later (1990). Prices retreated to about $25K in 1995 but I couldn't buy my old car for $150K today. My opinion is the 400 / 412 fall into the same category as the FV did 20 years ago. I have now purchased a 412. I should have bought Jay's when I had him on a weak day and he was lucky I hesitated! But now I have something (another something) to work on instead!

 

Cannot be trusted......check with Fla State's Atty General....multiple complaints filed this year alone. Tread with caution with this outfit,
Jack

 

You only lose if you sell low when you bought high. Could have just kept the car--for a long time mind you, but still.

 

Agreed!

We have always said you haven't made or lost anything until you actually sell.

 

Unless you mark to market

 

I have a 97 911 and I believe it's the motoring press that drives the market. Years ago the response to my car was fine; a thumbs up every so often, wave or flashed lights from other older 911's and this year people have been losing their sh*t. I get pictures taken every day, followed into the gas station, notes from buyers left on the windshield every week. Same car...
We need to hire a PR firm and get some product placement going!

 

Here in the UK 365/400/412 are riding the riding the classic car wave with top 412 manuals selling for around £65000 and currently there's a 400 manual for £60000 and an auto for £40000 and a 365 for £70000.
I've also noticed that it doesn't stop with Enzo era pre 1989 cars though.

Its happening with anything around before about 2000 now. five years ago 550s were as low as
£30k now they're over £50k and upto £100k , 348 were as low as £20k now they're over £35k and 456 was under £30k regularly now £50k not untypical. Basically they all still look cheap compared to a new model equivilant eg. an FF is £250,000 and same for F12 . Also those that are cash rich need to put their money in assets eg houses, cars , watches etc., as the bank is still offering no return.
Its not just Ferrari obviously , I was looking at BMW Z3M coupes a few years ago , They were around £12k for a decent one, now some are touching over £30k these were made at the turn or the millennium.