365 electrical gremlins | FerrariChat

365 electrical gremlins

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by rustytractor, Jan 2, 2016.

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  1. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Brought the 365 home today - it drove perfectly (although fuel consumption was abysmal at 10mpg, way worse than the 400 for some reason).

    It rained torrentially for the whole journey so the heated rear screen was on along with both interior fans and a couple of times I turned the AC fan on - everything worked fine. At one point when the traffic stopped unexpectedly I put the hazard warning lights on - they also worked no problem.

    I got home, unloaded the car and went back out to move it. This time no heated screen, no interior or AC fans and the hazard warning lights only flashed on the passenger side (both externally and on the dash) but very fast.

    I checked the obvious and the fuses seem fine, oddly the passenger side engine cooling fan fuse had gone (this could just be due to age as it looked more broken than blown) so I replaced it. No other fuses appeared to have failed.

    I recall when I first test drove the car prior to purchase that the hazard warning lights did this but the seller said he'd fix it before collection. it worked fine when I got collected it.

    There's probably a common wiring issue which is causing all the faults and I haven't looked yet (dark, wet and tired aren't exactly conducive to fixing electrical faults) but wondered if anyone had encountered any/all/some of these problems and can save me some faultfinding time tomorrow.
     
  2. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Did you start the car? I used similar power auxiliaries in bad hot weather in my 400i and everything worked fine. When I stopped the battery was dead. Once restarted everything was fine but battery was flat until a good recharge. If you tried auxiliaries without running car, their may not have been enough power to pull in the relays.
    Just a thought.
    Ken
     
  3. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    #3 rustytractor, Jan 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Nothing so simple I'm afraid. I spent the day fixing the drivers door lock on which the screw that attaches the lever used to lock/unlock the door had come loose leaving the lever flopping around - not a difficult job once you've worked out how to remove the handle (small tip - if you ever need to do this, remove the clamps that secure the handle inside the door and then remove the external mounting gasket that goes between the handle and the bodywork by pulling it over the handle as this allows the extra movement to get the handle through the door).

    Once I'd sorted the handle I set about tracing the electrical fault. I found that there was no power to the fuses that control the internal fans and rear screen demister so traced the wiring back to the relay board on the floor and found that item 97 in the wiring diagram which is the "Electrical System Main Relay switch" (basically a big set of points with 2 sets of contacts) wasn't connecting on one side. A quick strip down and contact clean up had it working perfectly but I noticed that one terminal had been bypassed. A bit more digging and I realised that some genius in the past had disconnected the contact from this terminal and wired it onto a permanent live - this allowed the windows to be opened when the ignition was off. If you look at the pictures you'll clearly see the Red wire (with label attached) connected to a blue power supply lead.

    This was probably because the relay was cuttimg out when too much current was passing through when the fans were running and the windows actuated and they were too lazy (or dumb) to take the cap off of the relay (2 screws - not rocket science) and check why there was a problem. I took the 27 seconds required and rewired this so it worked as originally designed. The good news is (other than the point mentioned here) the relay board and fuse boxes are like new with no signs of wear or corrosion whatsoever which was a nice thing to find.

    Anyway, all fixed, tomorrow I'll have a look at the heater controls and find out why hot air only enters the passenger side. Probably a seized vent cablle but we'll see,
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  4. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2013
    571
    Australia
    Hi Russell,

    Happy to hear you got your gremlins sorted. :)

    I have a gremlin of my own at the moment. :(
    I got home from a couple of weeks away to find my 400 had a dead flat battery & when I connected up the charger the interior lights came on. I assumed that I must have left a door slightly ajar but no the interior lights just decided to turn themselves on while I was away. I'm now searching for a short to ground somewhere on the door switches or wiring.
     
  5. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    electrical issues where non stop. until I found a shop smart enough solve the issues. all done with those bugs. took 4 shops.
     
  6. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Is the fault constant in that the lights come on whenever the battery isn't flat ?

    I recall having a similar a problem on the 400 when I first got it - turned out to be a ground fault in the interior light by the rear screen. These faults are really annoying but usually they can be tracked down with perseverence.

    That fault is 100% cured now but I fitted a battery isolator switch purely as a safeguard and always disconnect the battery when the car's not in use.

    Good luck sorting this.
     
  7. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
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    Bruce
    I'd be very careful hooking up a charger or jump starting with those Dinoplexes as those things can go south on you, at least that's my understanding…they're pretty sensitive little units. And loose battery terminal connections with the engine running will set these things off as well :(
     
  8. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    Local rebuild shop did my starter. I told the shop not to take it to them. Buying a new reduction starter today. Last peice on the 400.
     
  9. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2002
    31,629
    MA
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    John
    This is what I have heard as well. The one time that I needed to jump my 400i I connected the jumper cables and just let the running car charge the battery for a bit and then disconnected the jumpers and started the 400i on its own, just to be cautious.
     
  10. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    Bruce
    I remember Peter telling me when I bought the car that if I do charge the battery (via charger or jumping), disconnect the battery so nothing gets to the alternators or the dinoplex :eek:
     
  11. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    4,160
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Bruce,

    This is the best approach to the Dinoplex/ Alternator weaknesses... well for charging anyway, as boosting would not be helpful given that the battery is disconnected from the car.

    Disconnecting the battery (either or both terminals) will ensure that any "sensitive" components are not subjected to any electrical stresses from the charging mechanism. I have not electrically examined either device to know or understand why they seem to be so sensitive, but my guess is that the internal diodes within these devices were poorly spec'd (most likely an insufficient reverse bias level).

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  12. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
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    Bruce
    I've heard about the diode thing in the alternators Sam but haven't had the guts to tear apart the dinoplex :eek: I'd be real curious what you find in the alternators & I'm wondering if there's a wiring schematic for the dinoplex. B
     
  13. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2002
    31,629
    MA
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    John
    Yes, I had a battery disconnect switch which came in handy for that and for extended periods of the car being parked. I don't know whether it is urban legend or not or what the real probability is of causing a problem by jump starting the car directly but those dinoplexes are expensive to replace and even an MSD replacement at 1/3rd the cost is something to avoid or at least defer as long as possible.
     
  14. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
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    Bruce

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