My First Ferrari!?? PPI on a 456M GTA next week. | FerrariChat

My First Ferrari!?? PPI on a 456M GTA next week.

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by 4RE886, Feb 17, 2009.

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  1. 4RE886

    4RE886 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2009
    1,184
    California
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I am getting a PPI on a 2000 456M GTA next week and if everything looks good I will be purchasing my first Ferrari! I am sure most of you will never forget your first time.

    If anyone is interested in taking a look at the PPI I can email it to you once I get it. Hopefully things will overall be "clean bill of health" but I am expecting some issues -advice would be much appreciated. If the cost to fix these issues are too high then I will wait it out again. Thanks guys.
     
  2. andric

    andric Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2008
    462
    congrats! post pics as soon as you can.
     
  3. 4RE886

    4RE886 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2009
    1,184
    California
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I will post pics and more details on the car after the PPI. Fingers are crossed.
     
  4. GEaston

    GEaston Rookie

    Jul 3, 2008
    21
    #4 GEaston, Feb 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Same as my car, and if I may say a superb choice !

    The minor issues mine had/have were:
    1) Slight flaking of the alloy around the windscreen (front and rear), and a large bonnet stonechip. Fixed by Ferrari Main Dealer for 110 quid.
    2) HVAC panel bubbling. Swapped it for a superb replacement via Ricambi who advertise on this site. Sorted for 100 quid.
    3) Nail in rear tyre - can't blame the car for that.
    4) Front seat is fully reclined and won't come upright again - plenty on that in these boards which I will follow closely soon.

    Makes a great daily driver. The only thing I'd caution you about if this is your first Ferrari is to take care at the petrol pump after a long journey. I filled mine up after 200 miles till the pump clicked. I took the nozzle out and fuel literally pumped out of the car (car was switched off). In the time it took me to grab the cap and force it on maybe a litre of fuel poured down the side of and under the car - this on a car that was clicking and banging as it cooled. I'd say this is very dangerous because the fuel could have easily ignited. Moral of this story don't fill the car up to full when hot. Otherwise I love it.
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  5. 4RE886

    4RE886 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2009
    1,184
    California
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Is the fuel issue mentioned above a common problem with this car?
     
  6. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
    Plantation, Florida
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    Not that I know.
     
  7. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
    Plantation, Florida
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    Very nice colour: what blue is that?
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Salk- Good luck on the PPI. The first thing I would do if I bought the car would be to service everything possible on the automatic transmission. Should be bullet-proof if that is done regularly. All the rest of the problems seen on 456Ms are minor in comparison and easily fixed. Engine is bullet-proof once 575M plenum hoses and engine mounts are fitted.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  9. Tifoso Ferrari

    Tifoso Ferrari Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2005
    572
    Upper Volta
    Full Name:
    Gianni Cagate
    Ultra important!

    Be sure they provide you with the key code, security code (Uber important!), radio code + 3 remotes (2 black + 1 red). All of this is replacable but at very high cost.

    However, be sure that the service booklet is included. If it's missing, getting a duplicate service booklet is like getting the
    formula for Coca Cola ... fuggetaboudit!
     
  10. Dave 456

    Dave 456 Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2007
    1,317
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Dave Simons
    Not sure if it's the same issue, or applicable to an "M" model - 456's build up pressure in the fuel tank and it needs to be released before adding fuel, the volume is surprising! The pressure also needs to be released before working on the fuel system - I found out the hard way; had fuel *issing everywhere when I disconnected an injector rail. Brian (Rifledriver) put me right on that.

    Lovely car, hope the PPI works out..
     
  11. 4RE886

    4RE886 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2009
    1,184
    California
    Full Name:
    Bob
    #11 4RE886, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2009


    What type of cost am I looking at to replace the remotes and keys? I think the car unfortunately only has one key and one remote. Not sure what color remote.
     
  12. phillg

    phillg Karting

    Feb 4, 2007
    54
    Dorset UK
    never had it on mine
     
  13. GEaston

    GEaston Rookie

    Jul 3, 2008
    21
    Colour of my car is Tour de France Blue with Crema leather.

    I don't believe the fuel pressure issue is a problem, just something to be aware of. I've not seen that in any non-Ferrari car I've owned. On this occasion I'd driven on the motorway for over 200 miles without stopping, then stopped to fillup when the car was red hot. I just mention it as a caution so you don't do the same thing. I don't get it filling up when cold, but that might just be that I'm far more cautious filling up now.
     
  14. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
    Plantation, Florida
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    The M has a cooler for the fuel returning to the tank, so there is no pressure building up on hot days or when the fuel level in the tank is low.
     
  15. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2003
    19,036
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Toggie (Ron)
    #15 toggie, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
    See: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132803

    I believe it is the same remote / key technology as the 550. I also think the 360 might be similar.
    Plenty of "replacing keys" threads out there for those two car types.
    The keys are the easy part (buy a key blank and get it cut), it is the remotes that are hard to replace.

    The red remote is the most important. With it, you can program new black remotes. Each black remote is something like $700. To get new codes for a red remote replacement is something like $2700. Rumor has it to fully replace the entire remote control unit in the car and get a whole new set of one red remote and two black remotes is something like $10,000 (part of that is the labor involved).

    Unfortunately, the odds are, you probably have just the black remote with a key. Most people file away the red remote and use the 2 black remotes as their keys. If a car ends up with only one key, often it is one of the black remotes.

    I would call your nearest Ferrari dealer and get the latest prices from them.
    .
     
  16. Bronzage

    Bronzage Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2007
    1,129
    West Africa
    Full Name:
    MJ
    Lovely Car, great color combo! Congrats!!
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #17 tazandjan, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    toggie- Your remote numbers are way over-estimated. Three new remotes and a new PIN should be about $550, assuming you have the old PIN and one black remote. You can reprogaram the Alarm ECU yourself to accept the new PIN in the red remote and to accept two black remotes. This attachment tells you how to do it. I reprogrammed my Alarm ECU myself to accept the new remotes and new PIN. These procedures detail remote basics and reprogramming of the Alarm ECU.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
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  18. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2003
    19,036
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Toggie (Ron)
    Terry,

    Great to know! thanks.
    There have been so many horror stories about people paying a lot of money to get a simple set of keys & remotes replaced.

    So, I guess the critical piece of data needed for this car is whether they still have or know the alarm code PIN for the car.
    Without that alarm code and only 1 black remote, I assume it goes back to being an expensive proposition to obtain a full set of 1 red remote and 2 black remotes.
     
  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #19 tazandjan, Feb 19, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
    Toggie- Ferrari NA is supposed to be able to get your old PIN along with three new remotes and the new red remote PIN for the same cost of ~$550. I cannot personally vouch for that since my car came with one black remote (with the battery almost dead) and the PIN. Boardwalk was kind enough to provide me with three new remotes and the red remote PIN.

    If FNA cannot provide your old PIN, you would need a new alarm ECU and three matching fobs. Those were very expensive in the past, but prices have supposedly dropped to below $1000.

    If buying a car from a Ferrari dealer, you should be able to work a deal for them to provide new remotes or at least sell you a set of three at cost. If you have the red remote and PIN, you are set. I picked up two blacks and a red on E-Bay, one for only $25, including a souvenir cut key, now in a shadow box. Using the red remote and PIN, you can then program the Alarm ECU to accept up to two black remotes.

    Unfortunately, it is usually the red remote that is lost because it was put in a safe place, existence and location eventually forgotten.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  20. 4RE886

    4RE886 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2009
    1,184
    California
    Full Name:
    Bob
    #20 4RE886, Feb 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well the PPI arrived on the 2000 456M GTA with 30,000 miles here it is for all to see. If there are any comments please let me know. For a lay person like me the PPI looks overwhelming and I think I should back out. I can really only afford $6,000 to make additional repairs to this vehicle but this looks far more expensive. I will tell you the pictures of this vehicle looks great. I do feel the person who performed the PPI was excellent. I will share this experience on another thread. Photos attached below. Any advice would be appreciated as this would be my first Ferrari purchase. I already have one very respectable longtime Ferrari owner tell me to walk away.




    ________________________________________
    BODY

    • All window outer trim moldings have been sanded and painted, rear molding has numerous chips and scratches through out, rear side windows moldings are dry rotted and feel rough.
    • It appears to me that the whole car may have been painted, at very least the left side was painted.
    • Moisture inside back window at third brake light.
    • Fuel filler door did not open on its own, rubber protector flap is dry cracked and hard, was jamming fuel door hinge and one rubber bumper is broken and was laying at bottom.
    • Poor blend at left rear corner of roof, left rear quarter panel shows evidence of previous bodywork and was repainted.
    • Rear bumper has been repaired and repainted; poor blend at left side of bumper, suspect quick scratch repair. {the owner admits he backed the car into a pole, but swears no serious damage}
    • Rear bumper lower valance is cracked on both corners and paint is cracked underneath.
    • Cement rocks inside rear bumper grille.
    • Trunk lid is too high where it meets left rear quarter panel, possible adjustment.
    • Paint blistering inside trunk lid at skin fold line.
    • Scratches around Prancing Horse on truck lid.
    • Front headlight doors do not align to hood correctly and hood needs to be adjusted, did not see evidence of large accident.
    • Left rear side marker does not illuminate, and found electrical socket broken and hanging.
    • Left headlight motor is out of adjustment, does not move evenly with right side.
    • Headlight and bumper hardware is rusty, radiator-mounting bracket is twisted and bent and bumper grille is missing hardware.
    • Front bumper is severely chipped and has German plate screwed into bumper.
    • Front bumper lower valance is scraped.
    • Front bumper is cracked, "Sunoco" sticker attempting to cover crack, can only be seen with hood open.
    • Front turn signal lens have overspray on them and left front has small crack.
    • Ding on driver's door.
    • Several dings on passenger door, door edge paint is cracked and rusty.
    • Several little scratches on left rear quarter panel and minor dings.
    • Driver's door check makes noise when door is opened and closed.

    ________________________________________

    INTERIOR

    • Passenger air bag leather is slightly shrunk, lid is slightly deformed (have seen a lot worst).
    • Dash top leather is a bit dry, did not see any cracks or shrinking at this time.
    • All black plastic is sticky and tacky, very common problem with all Ferraris, to correct problem I would recommend replacing all buttons and vessels.
    • Climate control panel is bubbling, also common problem.
    • Radio is not original, someone has taken an aftermarket radio and installed radio chassis in glove box and face in console and ran ribbon cable from chassis to face plate, radio was not designed to function this way but it is working, also has remote control.m {owner says he will provide original stereo}
    • Has some sort of navigation, unit is coming on could not get NAV to display streets, but could be my fault, I 'm not familiar with system, unit is facing straight up and is very difficult and distracting to see screen.
    • Plastic steering column coverings are tacky and scratched around ignition switch.
    • In car temperature sensor grille is broken and it appears as a hole in dash just ahead of ignition switch.
    • Several chips and scratches on dash top on left side from sticker scraper.
    • Small cut on dash gage pod on left side.
    • In dash speaker grilles cloth shrunk, can be seen through grille.
    • Driver’s door triangular rubber weather strip at rear of door is slightly cut.
    • Both door panels are loose at rear of doors, suspect broken panel clips and trim at rear of both door panels is unglued.
    • Rubber weather strip on both door windows are being caught on windows as they go up. {the owner says this is on purpose to create a seal}
    • Driver’s seat rails are rusty.
    • Passenger seat does not move forward when seat back is folded forward.
    • Both lower kick panel covers are broken at mounting tabs.
    • Shifter knob is not original and shifter interlock as been disabled.
    • No owners’ manual or any other books found in car, there is a Ferrari car cover bag in trunk but no car cover, only one key and remote with car.

    TEST DRIVE

    • Air bag light is on, codes found for:
    1. Battery Voltage Fault, possible weak battery on start up.
    2. Lamp Circuit Fault, possible unplugged Gauge cluster and key turned on.
    • Check Engine Light is on, codes found for:
    1. P1445 Manufacture Controlled Auxiliary Emissions Control. {believed to be O2 sensor, but who knows that is what the current owner says}
    2. P1625 Manufacture Controlled Computer Output Circuit.
    • Slight drift to right, recommend wheel alignment.
    • Slight vibration at about 50 MPH, possible wheel balancing.
    • Transmission shifts well.
    • Engine runs well, engine temperatures and pressures are normal.
    • Horn is weak, suspect failing air compressor.
    • Right side turn signal indicator does not flash when turn signal is turned on and it stays dim when ignition is on, suspect electrical fault.

    UNDER CARRIAGE
    • Underbelly pan is severely bottomed out, it is worn through at lower radiator hose connection, there are several scrapes on radiator but it is not worn through at this time.
    • Accessory belt for alternator and a/c compressor is not installed correctly; grove was missed on crank pulley.
    • Power steering belt is cracked, recommend replacing both accessory belts.
    • Timing belts appear to have been replaced but they look like they have been in car for a while. When was service done? {Major service done 1.5 yrs ago}
    • Spark plugs are showing very little wear.
    • Power steering hose from reservoir to pump is very wet, suspect leak at reservoir connection.
    • Brake cooling hoses for both wheels are torn.
    • Brake calipers are painted yellow, they should be black, and inside of brake calipers are not painted.
    • Center section of exhaust has been removed and pipes welded in place, rear connections are loose, exhaust pipe used is not stainless steel pipe.
    • Rear mufflers have been replaced with stainless steel exhaust, one exhaust hanger on right muffler is broken, mufflers are dual sound, there are flaps in tail pipes that are controlled by switch mounted under left side of dash, vacuum solenoid was mount on right rear of car with vacuum hose running all the way to rear of car from engine bay, system is working at this time.
    • Left rear shock is leaking and should be replaced. {I was told this part would cost about $400}
    • Right rear axle seal is leaking.
    • Transmission under tray is missing.
    • Right rear air intake funnel to transmission cooler is missing.
    • Alternator appears to have been rebuilt, new paint job. {yes it was, it is 1 yr old}
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  21. F129b

    F129b Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2004
    523
    oc, calif.
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Sounds awful. + you'd have to replace those wheels asap.
     
  22. RS man

    RS man Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2008
    334
    Scotland
    Listen to what everyone else is saying in your other thread. You will only have yourself to blame if you don't take advice from people who have bought high performance exotic cars.
     
  23. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    Run in the other direction as fast as you can. This car will whiten your hair as it bleeds you dry and never give you a moment's rest or pleasure.
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Salk- Very thorough PPI. It appears this one will nickel and dime you to death. I think you can do better and the PPI was some of the best money you will ever spend. All those little broken things and leaks are normally fixed a little at a time as they appear on a car by a fastidious owner and his technicians. In this case, they seem to have been ignored.

    That appears to be another set of the dreaded Chinese wheels. Unlike the ones on the maroon 456, however, these are not attractive, at least not to me.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  25. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Run far and fast.

    Luckily for you, 456/456M GTAs are all over the market.
     

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