We have all speculated on the differences between the Superamerica's Type F 133G and the 575M's Type F 133E engines, and now we know. The major changes were: Heads were shaved 0.15 mm to increase compression ratio to 11.2:1 from 11.0:1. Angle of the exhaust valve seats, possibly intake valve seats, too, was increased to 130 degs from 90 degs, sinking the valves 0.2 mm further into the head to make up for the head shave and to increase flow. The same camshafts were used, but timing was altered to -1 deg BTDC/50 deg ABDC (SA) vs -7 deg BTDC/56 deg ABDC (M) for the intake cams and 42 deg BBDC/7 deg BTDC (SA) vs 36 deg BBDC/13 deg BTDC (M) for the exhaust cams. Intake line diameter increased by 1 mm. Red paint on the intake manifold covers and cover ribs were changed. 612 Scalietti-style gray valve covers. For 575M owners, it appears a useful gain in hp may be possible by adopting the new cam timing at the next belt change. Shaving the head and changing valve seat angles would be a bit more expensive. Any pros perusing the technical data and seeing something different, let me know. Taz Terry Phillips Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Carbon- 575M, 515 hp, 575 SA, 540 hp, both at 7250 rpm. Torque unchanged at 434 ft lbs. Actual comparisons seem to indicate the difference is not that much, and the Motronic ECU change made at Assembly No. 52556 may have increased hp part way to the 540. More data required. Taz Terry Phillips
Terry, Thank you for the technical data on the SA vs the M. Having gone from a 550-575M-SA I could notice the increase in power especially in throttle response of the SA over 575. I never could understand exactly why the difference. Thanks to you now I know. Obviously I love Maranellos......IMVHO it is one of the nicest GTs ever built.
Interesting that the torque measurements are exactly the same. I would have thought that there would be a corresponding increase in torque with the few extra horses.
The original reason I was given to understand for uprating the engine was to maintain performance having had to uprate the chassis to strengthen and reduce torsion with the roof removed, there was a considerable increase in chassis weight. The engine upgrade was intended to compensate. This is how it was explained to me and included in number of the test car reports at the time of launch. PAUL
Paul- No doubt about that, but changes were being made while the 575M was still in production. Plus, with those changes listed above, the odds of torque being identical down to the nearest tenth of a Nm at exactly the same rpm are virtually zero. Euro HGTCs were rated at 540 hp, too, and there is nothing in the bulletins to show they received the Superamerica treatment to their engines. Interesting to note that the Superamerica received new valves with the shorter valve stems, but the same valve guides were used as the 575M. This indicates a considerable amount of hand work was done on the SA heads, including cutting the valve guide to the new wider openings to seat the valves more deeply. New cylinder heads were provided, so at least the engine assembler did not have to shave the cylinder heads before installation. Taz Terry Phillips
Thanks Terry Mine is in the 'shop at the moment for its annual service. Coming up 5 years it is finally of an age to replace the cam belt as well. 6700 Kms. I am hoping they are looking after it as it was running so well and dont like them messing with the engine. Additionally I am having them replace the gas struts on the trunk as getting replacements from Ricambi did not work out. AND....I am getting all the "stickies" re-coated inside! The car has been away two weeks but should get it back tomorrow. Looking forward to having it back but not looking forward to the bill!. PAUL
So the late model Euro-spec 575M's with the HGTC pack is rated at 540? While the same model year 575M without HGTC would be 515?
Jamie- In theory, yes. That was the reason for the new engine designator. Note also that the 612 engine actually came out before the Superamerica engine, Type 133F vs Type 133G. When I get back from my F-111F reunion, I will go through the three parts catalogs and maybe do a Maranello to 612 engine evolution chart. When I last looked at the 612, I thought it used the same cams, valves, and heads as the 575M. The heads and valves are different on the Superamerica. Need to look at valve springs, too. For us amateurs, we are getting closer to understanding all the differences. Taz Terry Phillips
The change in cam timing would be useful BUT I would check VERY CAREFULLY that those specs apply to a US version car. It is a big enough change that the cats would probably melt down if not intended for the US market. Not all published specs apply to US cars even if not noted. Ferrari's failure to do that has caused a lot of problems.
That work is all performed on CNC equipment. Last I saw valve guides were installed by hand and the heads were assembled by hand, otherwise all automated and it has gotten considerably more automated since I was there last.
Brian- Thanks, that is why I wanted to have a pro look at the numbers. A six degree change in intake and exhaust cam timing is a pretty big deal, so was not sure how that would play. Guess we need a volunteer and a very careful pro. Trouble is, that timing will conflict with all the pulley and cam markings. Not sure what they did with the ignition timing to go along with the cam timing change. Need to look more closely at the Motronic ECUs and see if they are SA specific. What do you think would be the end result? Catalyst overheating is not a good deal, but it seems like the higher compression on the SA engine would have made it even worse. Do you have any tech data we amateurs are missing? Taz Terry Phillips
Looked through the SA parts catalog tonight and noticed Ferrari had highlighted all the parts different from the 575M in yellow. A quick glance showed more parts changes than I originally thought. These included the crankcase, which had to have a new engine type cast. Also the camshafts are different because they needed different assembly/cam timing marks for the change in timing, even though the 575M and SA cams have the same profile. Will go through and document the other main differences soon. Taz Terry Phillips
Frefan- You need wider rear wheels and tires. I notice the new 355/25 19s on my 575M have considerably better traction and cornering power, even new. Are you running Corsas? Those or the PS2 Sport Cups are the only tires that should be wearing out that fast unless the rear suspension is way out of alignment. The 19" OEM wheels are modulars. Wonder how hard it would be to widen the rears an inch or so? Never thought of it until now. We could always ask Chris Knoppe's Speedline guy. Trouble is, only one suitable tire is manufactured in the 355/25 19 size, and those are the Rossos. I would actually prefer PS2s, especially Zero Pressures, but no luck. Taz Terry Phillips
I don't have an SA shop manual as of yet but I will get one. That is where we would find out about US cam timing but it might be rather criptic to those not familiar with Ferrari/English. I am not surprised they do not claim more torque. They almost certainly gave some up with those valve timing changes and only made it up with the other changes. 550 and 575 actually have very conservative, near RV valve events and is the reason they have such prodigious torque right off idle. It is only through the great manifolding and other breathing enhancements that they can also have such a broad powerband and a pretty high redline with the power going right up to it. Those are the attributes that make the car such a pleasure to drive. I was given the chance to have a 550 at my disposal for a track day at Laguna Seca a few years ago and in that car it is really a 2 gear track. You could get down into second if you wanted to but there was really no need. I could still hang the rear end out in the slowest corner in 3rd. And what terrific high speed broadslides it will do. I just finished a big service on one today and when I came back from the test drive I told my other mechanic how much I love those things. He asked if I wanted one and I told him the problem with that is if it was mine there was just no way I was going to keep a drivers license. It is just was too much fun to drive it like a psyco. I don't treat others cars like that but from my day at Laguna I am quite aware of what would happen.
Brian- I will send you a CD with what I have. Daniel at Ricambi has my unlocked factory CD right now, but the version I will send you is semi-interactive and is loaded on my hard drive. The factory CD tends to lock up my PC, but I managed to copy it to my hard drive when it and the PC were in a good mood. Will send it along when Daniel sends it back. You can help us decipher it and then send it back. I am hoping Daniel can get a version of the parts catalog on lone. Unless you find something different, it looks like the shop manual consists mostly of details on the retractable roof. Let me know if there is something different. The Maranellos remind me of Corvettes with everything you wanted to change fixed, only way prettier inside and out, with a far superior ride, and with a glorious V12 sound at 7500 rpm to top it off. Phil Hill said it was his favorite street Ferrari. The 575M has almost as much torque as a 7 liter C6 Z06 (434 vs 470 ft lbs). Have never tracked one, but it sounds like fun. Certainly fun on the streets. Just have to keep ignoring Mustangs. The Corvettes want nothing to do with you, but the Mustangs want to race everybody, and I gave up on that years ago. Should have gone to jail a dozen times, but law enforcement was different 40 years ago. Taz Terry Phillips
I can read the factory CD's. Thats all I really use. Are you sure it is not just a supplement for the top? They are not a great track car but if you don't mind destroying a set of tires it gives you a lot of insight to how well behaved that chassis is doing things you really shouldn't be doing on public roads.
Brian- It really looks just like a summary, but it is already burned and mailed, so you can see if it helps. Cost 3 minutes and $0.81, so no big deal one way or the other. It does have the WSM pages on the top. Engine ECUs were unaffected. Taz Terry Phillips
Engine Components Crankcase (1) Head Gasket (2) Wrist Pin Circlip (24) Heads (2) shaved 0.15 mm Camshaft Covers (2) Camshafts (4) timing marks changed Valves (48) shortened 0.2 mm Intake Manifold (1) 1 mm bigger inlets Intake Manifold Gasket (2) 1 mm bigger inlets Manifold Inlet Covers (2) Intake Manifold Top Cover Electric Radiator Fans (2) Gas Tank Filler Neck Gas Tank Vapor Separator Drivetrain and Suspension Components Transmission Including Most Major Parts (1) quite a few common parts, but not many major ones Ring and Pinion Gears (1) same 11/43 ratio F1 Passenger Compartment Control Panel (1) Rear Axles (2) Brake Calipers (4) only thing changed was addition of Rosso Scuderia paint 27 mm Front Anti-Roll Bar and Bushings (1) not sure of 575M size Front Shock Absorber (2) ECUs not Unique to top F1 ECU (1) no hardware changes to match, 6th 575 F1 ECU, including 575M HGTC ECU TPMS ECU (1) updated ECU, no other hardware changes Window Lifter ECU (1) tied to retractable top Motronic ECUs same as HGTC 575M, as were late 2005 575Ms. No separate HGTC F1 ECU noted. Same F1 ECU for HGTC/non-HGTC cars? Might make a useful upgrade for 575Ms, depending on price vs HGTC ECU. I also noted no 21 mm anti-roll bar listed for the 575 SA, even though FHP was still optional. It appears the FHP 21 mm bar may have been replaced with the HGTC 19.5 mm bar, which was listed, for FHP and HGTC. Taz Terry Phillips
A little work in the 612 (Type 133F engine) books turns up the following facts: Same valves and camshaft as 575M. Different heads, but the same compression ratio (11.0:1). Intake manifolding has SA-like larger intake ports. Exhaust manifolding and exhaust system completely different, ECU architecture completely different, so hp gains must come from Motronic ECUs and improved intake manifolding, possibly from improved exhaust manifolding and exhaust system, too. A bunch was learned about low restriction, high efficiency catalytic converters between 2001 and 2004. One of the reasons the C5 Z06 went from 385 hp to 405 hp in 2002 was the introduction of new low flow restriction catalysts. Taz Terry Phillips
